European alternative to Pacific Secraft Dana 24?

[johnserr]

Seafarer 26 by McCurdy & rodes.

[johnserr]

Vancouver 25

[DanielCZ]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Daniel:
If you choose a 36-footer, your desire for headroom will have been taken care of in the boat's basic design as will the need for stowage for your clobber. And you'l have decent cooking, toilet and washing facilities as well as decent food storage for the warmer climes where you would like to go. And single-handing a “thirtysixer” is in some respects easier than single-handing a “twentysixer”!

Once you get going, you can always come back here for pointers on how to deal with particular aspects of developing your seamanship!

Hodně štěstí

TrentePieds

Thanks for the honest explanation, even if 36ft might not be more complex to handle, it would be much more expensive than a 26ft with same conditions, not just to purchase, but to moore and maintain.

[smacksman]

Does she have to have 6 ft. headroom? I'm 6' 1" and move happily aboard a Vega 27 but I have to hunker down a bit but not uncomfortably. I rarely stand up ram rod straight like on parade.

[DanielCZ]

Originally Posted by smacksman

Does she have to have 6 ft. headroom? I'm 6' 1" and move happily aboard a Vega 27 but I have to hunker down a bit but not uncomfortably. I rarely stand up ram rod straight like on parade.

Yes, imagine I would be able in Spring and Autumn to live and work on the boat for way 2-3 weeks, means I can not really sail like on a vacation, but I can be there, do some maintenance, have short trips, weekend sail, but still have to work form there for weeks, I really can not imagine to live in a space where I can not fully stand. Especially would I get a bad week of raining. Sure during a vacation, you sail, dive, hike, and only sleep on board, that might work, thou even then I rather have standing headroom, its really curious how US designs are more comfortable in this small cruiser segment

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DanielCZ

Thanks for the honest explanation, even if 36ft might not be more complex to handle, it would be much more expensive than a 26ft with same conditions, not just to purchase, but to moore and maintain.

Basically his goal is to keep the boat in the <8metre pricing range, the cheapest rates in Spanish/Portuguese marinas..
Go above 8 metres and you'll pay the same for a 9.98metre boat as an 8.08metre boat.. that's how it works.
After that it's 10-12metre, 12-14 and so on.

[Greg K]

If you're willing to go a couple feet larger, I would think a Great Dane 28 would meet all of your needs, including headroom and price point.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/great-dane-28

If you like the PS Dana, you would love our Shannon 28. The perfect small offshore cruiser.

https://sailboat.guide/shannon/28

Albeit, not within your price range.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Basically his goal is to keep the boat in the <8metre pricing range, the cheapest rates in Spanish/Portuguese marinas..
Go above 8 metres and you'll pay the same for a 9.98metre boat as an 8.08metre boat.. that's how it works.
After that it's 10-12metre, 12-14 and so on.

Have seen this on the Costa Brava, but not all marinas here on the Spanish Med coast use this pricing system. Ours, for example, still prices moorage by meter, ie... 8,9,10 etc.

[DanielCZ]

Originally Posted by Greg K

If you're willing to go a couple feet larger, I would think a Great Dane 28 would meet all of your needs, including headroom and price point.
If you like the PS Dana, you would love our Shannon 28. The perfect small offshore cruiser.

Issue with the Shannon is basically not in EU to buy, mostly in US. Great Dane on the other hand is often sold quite affordable, that's true.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by DanielCZ

Issue with the Shannon is basically not in EU to buy, mostly in US. Great Dane on the other hand is often sold quite affordable, that's true.

The issue with a Shannon 28 and, to a lesser extent, a Dana 24 is that even if you could find one in the Med, these high quality boats are out of your price range. The cheapest Dana on Yachtworld right now is about twice your budget, and the only Shannon 28 available right now, a 1979 model, is a whooping 63K USD.

There is a VAT paid 1983 Shannon 28, hull number 54 with a cruising model interior in pristine, turn-key condition on the Spanish Med coast that I might be willing to part with.

But you will need to up your budget by 2.5X

[drdoyle]

Fisher 25

[SV_Mutiny]

Originally Posted by DanielCZ

not sure why its called a 32 if its a 28 ,

Vindö used sailplan (square meters) on there boats , Vindö 32 stands for 32 m2)

[TrentePieds]

Boatman said: "Basically his goal is to keep the boat in the <8metre pricing range, the cheapest rates in Spanish/Portuguese marinas..
Go above 8 metres and you'll pay the same for a 9.98metre boat as an 8.08metre boat.. that's how it works.
After that it's 10-12metre, 12-14 and so on."

Thank you, boatman :-) — being on the far side of the world, I was not aware of that.

Expressed in feet for the benefit of us "over here", there are then basically five rubrics that a yottie might be concerned about: <26'3"; 26'4 - 32'9"; 32'10" - 39'3", 39'4 - 45'9" and 45'10" - 52'6"

I have set out these rubrics in a table showing the annual moorage costs for each rubric at Cartagena Spain. for comparisons sake, I will mention that for my 30-footer I pay Can$3780.- per annum at Ladysmith on Vancouver Island (British Columbia), which is essentially the equivalent of what I would have to pay in Cartagena. for a 36-er (which is what I recommended to the OP I would be paying Can$4,536, which again is essentially the equivalent of the cost at Cartagena.

So the question is, of course, is the extra US$1K per annum worth it? For me, if I were a permanent liveaboard, it would be. DanielCZ may see it differently.

TrentePieds is nominally 9K lbs displacement. A Pearson 36 is nominally 13.5K lbs. My "cost to keep" is Can$1K per month, a sum which includes a sinking fund for new canvas and rigging, and a sinking fund for engine repairs. IOW I set money aside in the "Boat Account", looking to the future, but I don't necessarily spend it all each month.

Using the rough (very rough!) estimating technique of assuming that "cost to keep net of moorage expense" increases as the (increase in length)^3, if TP was Person 36 I should have to increase my monthly deposits to the "Boat Account" from $1K per month to $ 683x (1.2 x 1.2 x 1.2) = $1,195/mnth. Add back the moorage, and total cost to keep would be $1,600.-/mnth. Another guesstimate of the "other costs to keep" the 36-er is: $683x 13.5/9 = $1,025.-. Add back the moorage and the 36-er would require $1,425/mnth.

IMO - if the budget will stand it - forking out the additional 400 - 600 canuckibux per month (about 400 Euros) in order to keep a 36-er rather than a 30-footer would be well worth it :-)

So Daniel, I encourage you to go through an exercise similar to the one above to get a realistic grip on what the cost differences are between a small boat and a "big" boat. As a liveaboard you'll be SO much happier in the bigger boat if you can afford it :-)!



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[TrentePieds]

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[DanielCZ]

Hi TrentePieds, I absolutely get what you are saying and I dont say in general I dont agree with you. My case, I'm not yet in a live aboard situation, I could for a couple of weeks work from the boat, every quarter of a year, kids, mortgage etc. keep my focus elsewhere, for me even 100$ montly difference matters, hence I'm looking for in fact the reasonably cheapest way to sail on seas, having a boat I can be ok in for a couple of weeks. I rather buy a 26ft for 10k$ instead a 36ft for 30K$ and use say 10k$ to pay mooring in a marina for 2 years, keep 10$ for what ever breaks, and have the boat ready every time I would manage to get there, get more experience in the 2 years, and decide in the future if I outgrow the boat or if its what I need. This go simple, go small, go now, although go would not mean for me a world cruise, just arrange I could work for a moth from the boat and daysail it