European alternative to Pacific Secraft Dana 24?

[boatman61]

I think you'll have trouble finding anything much within your parameters of 20ft - 25ft..
Europeans/Brits are more pragmatic about boats in that size range.. all my under 27ft boats bar one had 4ft 6"/5ft 6" headroom.. I mean let's face it, 95% of time below is spent sitting or lying down.. wanna stand up getting dressed, fit a spray hood over the companionway..
This is the only 6ftr built in that size in the UK.
The closest is the Trident 24 with around 5ft 9" under the doghouse.

[DanielCZ]

Found a Dutch 26 with 6ft+ headroom, build like a tank, fits all the req. just seems too expensive on the used marked. BTW they still make new ones
https://www.de-kloet.nl/pdf/Test_eng_midget26.pdf

[boatman61]

That's the model I showed you on Apollo Duck but it was above your price point...

[DanielCZ]

Yes you right, that leave with two real alternatives to the US makers that I know of, in this size - STORFIDRA 25, and the MIDGET 26, personally I love the layout of the Midget more.

[TrentePieds]

Daniel:

The inclusion of "CZ" in your "handle" indicates to me that you are located in Czechia, and that your sailing experience therefore has been on inland lakes. You should be aware that sailing on lakes in that part of the world is in no way equivalent to sailing in open waters, even in water so little "open" as the Baltic. You should also be aware that the Baltic, while it can blow at times, is NOTHING like the west coast of "the Continent" when the wind comes howling in from the North Atlantic!

So I suggest you define very carefully WHERE you wish to use this boat you are looking for, and HOW you are going to use it in those waters. I do not think that the Mighty Midget will give you a very satisfactory sailing experience, and I think that precisely because the unusual layout in combination with the headroom militates against it!

A look at the arrangement drawing given in the mag shows a beam/length ratio that immediately raises a red flag for people with some knowledge of yacht design. This is a perennial problem when a designer tries to cater to "new sailors" and particularly to women who tend to be the decision makers when the purchase of a cruising boat is under consideration, but who are most often innocent of all knowledge of boats and seafaring.

The MM's Sail Area to Displacement ratio shown in article is very low and while that is desirable if you are going to be sailing in 30 knots of wind, I think that this boat would be excruciatingly uncomfortable in such conditions, particularly in the short, sharp seas you often get off the coast of Pomerania, and as for going out into the North Sea... probably not advisable.

On a pleasant August afternoon in the Baltic you wouldn't be going very far, very fast for the SA/D is only half of what it needs to be to drive this 4-ton boat in the sort of winds you would be comfortable with, and you cannot increase the SA/D for any reasonable amount of money. To increase the SA/D safely you'd also need to be a qualified yacht designer!

You also need to be aware that compared with the catamaran you say you have, this boat would be an absolute slug! The design parameters are such that she would be constrained to a maximum THEORETICAL speed of 6 knots, i.e. the speed of a fast walk! And that is on FLAT water! In actuality, given her excessive beam and consequent "flat" bottom, she most likely, in most circumstances, would give you no more than 4 knots. Furthermore, she will, in any kind of sea, pound and slap unmercifully. There are few things more unpleasant and more tiring than having to suffer that for hours on end.

So my council to you, particularly since you say that your budget is constrained, is to put aside all desire for headroom and luxurious accommodations. A small cruising boat is not a holiday trailer and certainly not a hotel room.

If you would own a cruiser, then, for a first boat, stick to proven ones such as the "Spækhugger" ("Orca") to which I've already pointed you, or to any one of the many permutations of the basic Folkebåd ("Folkboat"). The English "Vertue" would also do nicely.

All the best to you :-)!

TrentePieds,-Former Danish Person

[SVTatia]

A Danish Grinde 27, very nice little boat, circunavigation under way, check Youtube Wind Hippie sailing.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/grinde

[landsend]

How about the Hurley 22?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by landsend

How about the Hurley 22?

Great little ship but doubt he'd like the 4ft 6" average headroom.. 5ft under the companionway.

[DanielCZ]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

So my council to you, particularly since you say that your budget is constrained, is to put aside all desire for headroom and luxurious accommodations. A small cruising boat is not a holiday trailer and certainly not a hotel room.

Thanks for the council, I plan to rent a coastal mooring in Spain, Portugal, Croatia, that depends but say I intent to use the boat in the Mediterranean . and Atlantic, means I do want in time to go further than just coastal.
I definitely want standing headroom, can not imagine being weeks on a boat without, sure I could go for a 30+ and have that solved, but I will mostly single hand it, or short hand it. I just love the Pacific Seacraft ones, just astonishing how boatbuilding can differ.

PS: what do you think of the STORFIDRA 25?

[Munoz]

Bowman 26
Nicholson 26
Hurley 27
Halcyon 27

[Don C L]

This site has many European boats to check out:
https://www.sailboat-cruising.com/cr...s-under30.html
I always thought the Eventide 26 looked like a nice design. I like the low freeboard aft.

[landsend]

4ft 6" !! Boat seemed huge when I was 10 years old.

[boatman61]

I had the fin keel version that I took across the Biscay from UK to Viviero, Galicia non stop one December then on to the W Coast of Portugal.
She rode out multiple gales and sea's up to 10metres according to Spanish Meteo, personally I just thought they were big.. on a 22ftr anything over 5metres starts to look pretty much the same as you bob along.. less resistance has its benefits..
Sitting headroom only I'm afraid, the H27 however has I think 6ft 3" under the companionway going down to 5ft 6" in the forepeak.

[Adelie]

Albin Vega has 5’10” headroom.

[TrentePieds]

Daniel:

I like the Storfidra for the sailing qualities I perceive from the published data that she will have. But she is just a bit small despite the standing height under the companion way hatch. Compare her with the Vancouver 27 give here:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/va...orth%20America.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/storfidra-25

And you will see immediately that the V27 would be so much more comfortable due to the better cooking and toilet facilities.

As for the basic numbers, SF SA/D = 13.68 call it 14 (spurious accuracy is the bane of the sailorman!), V27 SA/D = 14.18, call it 14. i.e., there is nothing to choose on that score! SF D/L = 345.47, call it 350. V27 D/L = 332.21, call it 330, i.e., the V27 is ever so slightly better.

But I think you still have some thinking to do about what “short handing” is all about. It is NOT true, in my opinion, that larger (as in “longer”) boats are more difficult to handle for a single hander. That is true up to a size of boat that would cost more than I think you are willing to spend! “Big boats” do require a different mental “set” than smaller boats, and that comes from the ineluctable fact that in small boats things happen, or develop, quickly, but rarely have very serious consequences when they go wrong. In large boats things happen, or develop slowly, and may have very serious consequences indeed when they go wrong! To stop a sequence of events leading ultimately to calamity, when it arises in a big boat, takes a bloody-mindedness that doesn't come naturally to all people.

Leading from that argument we may say that asking whether a given vessel is “fit” for crossing oceans only provides half an answer! Unless you ALSO ask if the skipper is fit for the task, you are going to short-change yourself! I think it is true to say that whether an ocean crossing may be safely undertaken depends even more on the skipper's competence than on the traits of the vessel in question.

You speak of waters that are entirely different in nature, i.e., in “behaviour”: I take it that by “Spain” you mean the Balearic Sea, by “Portugal”, the Atlantic Coast and by “Croatia”, the Adriatic. Entirely different waters with different weather regimes and therefore different sailing conditions placing different demands on the skipper. I am on the West Coast of Canada so I cannot give you specific counsel, but I can tell you that the west coast of Europe from the Skaw in Denmark to the Pillars of Hercules at the southern end is not for novices when Boreas gets agitated! Our member Boatman can give you better council than I can. He knows that coast well.

Both of the boats cited here will take you around the world if YOU have the competence required. So get yourself a decent boat of a decent size – 36 feet is good for a competent single-hander – then set about teaching yourself the craft of seafaring. A lot of it is common sense. Another part of it is practice, practice, practice so you can do your work blindfolded. With one hand tied behind your back. In the dark. While the seas are trying to wash you off the deck.

If you choose a 36-footer, your desire for headroom will have been taken care of in the boat's basic design as will the need for stowage for your clobber. And you'l have decent cooking, toilet and washing facilities as well as decent food storage for the warmer climes where you would like to go. And single-handing a “thirtysixer” is in some respects easier than single-handing a “twentysixer”!

Once you get going, you can always come back here for pointers on how to deal with particular aspects of developing your seamanship!

Hodně štěstí

TrentePieds