Baba 30: too much load to single-hand?

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

I've always felt - you really know your boat when you see it. If your heart says its the one for you - get it. There are a million little tricks you will learn on how to handle her, and it's not the raw strength that matters, it's how smart the plan is. That's a beautiful and safe boat with a lot of character. Good luck-

yes, finding one's boat seems to involve a delicate mix of checking boxes rationally and "just knowing" intuitively...

so many have told me that they just "knew" this was the boat when they stepped on board.

and so many have stated how they feel elated, filled with joy and 'in love'.... as they look back at their boats from the dingy.

it is curious, isn't it?

i haven't thought about this all the much, but the question is a good one. we can easily understand how, for some folks, a boat can be "just" a tool for vacation fun. or, on the other hand, we can imagine how the lone sailor becomes very attached, how he talks to his boat, coaxes her and genuinely thanks her for keeping him safe through the long and tough journey.

how the boat is used and the circumstances, the experience can bring about attachment or not, yes....

but what is it that tells some boat buyers that this is "the one" when they climb aboard? is it because of how romanticism, which is a relatively recent cultural construct, has trained us to look for "the one boat" just as it has trained us to believe in soul mates? it is a curious thing...

it would be interesting to collect different people's sentiments when finding the boat... and then follow the "relationship' with the boat over time.

is it more likely that the boat that is "loved" be better maintained over time? when we take away the tragic stories involving storms or owners who are disabled for whatever reason and look at the rest, it seems quite likely.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

yes, finding one's boat seems to involve a delicate mix of checking boxes rationally and "just knowing" intuitively...

so many have told me that they just "knew" this was the boat when they stepped on board.

and so many have stated how they feel elated, filled with joy and 'in love'.... as they look back at their boats from the dingy.

it is curious, isn't it?

i haven't thought about this all the much, but the question is a good one. we can easily understand how, for some folks, a boat can be "just" a tool for vacation fun. or, on the other hand, we can imagine how the lone sailor becomes very attached, how he talks to his boat, coaxes her and genuinely thanks her for keeping him safe through the long and tough journey.

how the boat is used and the circumstances, the experience can bring about attachment or not, yes....

but what is it that tells some boat buyers that this is "the one" when they climb aboard? is it because of how romanticism, which is a relatively recent cultural construct, has trained us to look for "the one boat" just as it has trained us to believe in soul mates? it is a curious thing...

it would be interesting to collect different people's sentiments when finding the boat... and then follow the "relationship' with the boat over time.

is it more likely that the boat that is "loved" be better maintained over time? when we take away the tragic stories involving storms or owners who are disabled for whatever reason and look at the rest, it seems quite likely.

If you end up buying an old, slow boat loaded down with teak, you’ll certainly be spending lots of your time talking to her as you form your lasting advisarial relationship over time. I’m thinking lots of four letter words will be used.

I spent over four hundred hours refinishing the teak decks on our boat which are the glued down type. It wasn’t fun and took a considerable amount of skill. These are not light-hearted spiritual experiences that you can just hack away at during your copious amounts of free time.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

If you end up buying an old, slow boat loaded down with teak, you’ll certainly be spending lots of your time talking to her as you form your lasting advisarial relationship over time. I’m thinking lots of four letter words will be used.

Ken, you do have a point.

it would be interesting to see the numbers on this:

how many are swearing at their old boats and how many are "in love"?

if there is any correlation to real relationships, i imagine the the swear words would outnumber the sweet-somethings.

[Kenomac]

You need to stop daydreaming and become more rooted in reality. IMHO

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You need to stop daydreaming and become more rooted in reality. IMHO

I'll take this as constructive criticism Ken, and this is because i do realise that the side you see of me is the one who appears to be dreaming.

and it is very normal that you cannot see if i am rooted in reality or not.

thinking about it here... i do not know any other my women my age who have no one to care about but themselves and their own dreams. do you?

[MartinR]

Single-handing a 30' boat is a piece of cake. Nothing to worry about there.

Wooden mast, if in good condition, would not be a deterrent to me. Needs more maintenance, though. I love the smell of varnish.

Screwed teak decks can be problematic, but this is a small boat.

For teak on deck, you can choose two maintenance options. Do nothing, and in time it will weather to a beautiful silver. The second one is for masochists

And just a general comment:

Dreaming is the foundation of voyaging. In all ages, dreamers have gone out to explore the world.

[Jim Cate]

Dreaming is the foundation of voyaging. In all ages, dreamers have gone out to explore the world.

I'd say SOME dreamers have gone on to great voyages. Others have heaved up off the sofa and ordered pepperoni pizza delivered to t he door.

The dreaming is easy, the voyaging not so much.

I'm hoping that Wolfie does not have pizza on order!

Jim

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

I'll take this as constructive criticism Ken, and this is because i do realise that the side you see of me is the one who appears to be dreaming.

and it is very normal that you cannot see if i am rooted in reality or not.

thinking about it here... i do not know any other my women my age who have no one to care about but themselves and their own dreams. do you?

It was truly meant as constructive, and thanks for not jumping quickly onto the “what a rude comment” like so many on this forum do so often.

I can pretty much guarantee that if you purchase the Baba 30 or a similar teak laden, slow, old boat, the very first day you spend talking to your boat while out sanding in the hot sun, that your love affair with the boat will end and be replaced with thoughts of “what the **** was I thinking? Ken was right” as you watch the Catalina 30s and like boats leaving the marina for a fun, carefree day of sailing.

[SV Siren]

Wolfgal,

If you have an aversion to working on teak, I would not suggest getting one loaded with teak. It will become a teak nightmare, unless you let everything to natural, and even then you will have to pay the piper someday and spend some significant $$ in doing so.

That said, a 30'er is definitely doable for you, it is just a matter of using mechanical leverage to make the forces needed manageable. I would definitely look into means to make it easier, for example a stack-pack or lazy-jacks for flaking the main...just as an example.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

so many have told me that they just "knew" this was the boat when they stepped on board.

and so many have stated how they feel elated, filled with joy and 'in love'.... as they look back at their boats from the dingy.

it is curious, isn't it?

I'm lucky, and that's truly the way I feel. I feel like one of the luckiest guys on earth actually when I gaze at the rig all set up. It's a combination of loving the water and boats, having some kind of personal affinity for my boat design, and having put a lot of "work" in on the boat over a long period of time - and getting it set-up exactly the way I want, with all my little ideas thought out and built by me. I don't care if everyone else thinks my boat is terrible, I really like it, and if I'm quirky about it, I consider myself lucky to be so quirky. In a strange way, your boat is not just a tool, it's part of you when you're mentally invested in it. Lots of good little personal adventures and stories come from it, and a better life than having spent 3000 hours just watching TV instead.

[Lowcountry]

Trying to bite my tongue here regarding Kenomac's comments, but I will say that some people prefer an attractive and classy labor-of-love boat over a non-descript, lightweight Clorox bottle piece of you-know-what. I'm one of those people. My last boat was a Mason 44, and I have just replaced it with a Hans Christian 33. Those are the type of boats that make my heart sing. I don't care if it's two knots slower than a Catalina of the same size. I've owned a Catalina before, and do not care to own another boat of similar "quality."
To the original poster: the Baba 30 is a fantastic boat and will serve you well. It will require much more maintenance than something more modern and more plastic, but it will be much more rewarding. You have already indicated that you will not be juggling boat maintenance, career and relationships, so you should have plenty of time to devote to your boat. As for build quality, as someone said above, anything built by the Ta Shing yard will be top of the mark. My Mason 44 was built in that yard, and it is one of the best-built boats I've ever been on board. Best wishes to you and good luck in your search!

[Don C L]

When you hear someone else's take on one boat or another, it is coming from their own personal filter, reflecting their own experiences and priorities. No one can presume to tell you how it's all going to work out for you. The Baba 30 is a solid and beautiful boat that can take you places and do it comfortably and beautifully. As far as speed, ultimately that is primarily a function of waterline length and at 24.5' or so, she'll scud along just fine in a good breeze and you won't have to reef as soon as I do! Yes, in lighter air she's got more weight to get moving, so get a big genoa. I saw some commentary on another forum about racers surprised how a Baba 40 kept up in light air. So she's got a lot of teak, so get a full boat cover to keep the workload down. IN any event, it's the feeling YOU get from sailing her and living on her in all kinds of weather, and the beauty YOU see in her, that will inspire you in all those times when you are getting tired and dirty to make her more beautiful. Others, many others, will not get it. When you are done with the work, your sense of satisfaction will likely be far more than others who just jumped in and went sailing for the day. But that is impossible for anyone else to judge or measure, and since it is impossible to judge, it is at the least impolite to presume one can.
I go through this with the affection for the older boats.... they are old, they are are slow, they have no room inside, they don't point well, they don't go in reverse well... there's always gonna be someone on the bar stool with the right opinion and all others are ignorant. Oldragbaggers had a wonderful post about it in the Plastic Classics thread some years back.
The Baba 30 is a great choice for many reasons and yes, you will be able to singlehand her no problem. If your heart goes pitter pat for this one, you are in for a really wonderful and exciting journey.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Don C L

When you hear someone else's take on one boat or another, it is coming from their own personal filter, reflecting their own experiences and priorities. No one can presume to tell you how it's all going to work out for you. The Baba 30 is a solid and beautiful boat that can take you places and do it comfortably and beautifully. As far as speed, ultimately that is primarily a function of waterline length and at 24.5' or so, she'll scud along just fine in a good breeze and you won't have to reef as soon as I do! Yes, in lighter air she's got more weight to get moving, so get a big genoa. I saw some commentary on another forum about racers surprised how a Baba 40 kept up in light air. So she's got a lot of teak, so get a full boat cover to keep the workload down. IN any event, it's the feeling YOU get from sailing her and living on her in all kinds of weather, and the beauty YOU see in her, that will inspire you in all those times when you are getting tired and dirty to make her more beautiful. Others, many others, will not get it. When you are done with the work, your sense of satisfaction will likely be far more than others who just jumped in and went sailing for the day. But that is impossible for anyone else to judge or measure, and since it is impossible to judge, it is at the least impolite to presume one can.
I go through this with the affection for the older boats.... they are old, they are are slow, they have no room inside, they don't point well, they don't go in reverse well... there's always gonna be someone on the bar stool with the right opinion and all others are ignorant. Oldragbaggers had a wonderful post about it in the Plastic Classics thread some years back.
The Baba 30 is a great choice for many reasons and yes, you will be able to singlehand her no problem. If your heart goes pitter pat for this one, you are in for a really wonderful and exciting journey.

That captures it I think.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Don C L

When you hear someone else's take on one boat or another, it is coming from their own personal filter, reflecting their own experiences and priorities. No one can presume to tell you how it's all going to work out for you.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Others, many others, will not get it. When you are done with the work, your sense of satisfaction will likely be far more than others who just jumped in and went sailing for the day. But that is impossible for anyone else to judge or measure, and since it is impossible to judge, it is at the least impolite to presume one can.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If your heart goes pitter pat for this one, you are in for a really wonderful and exciting journey.

Very wise, thanks.

While my boat has almost no teak compared to a Baba, I am reminded of our decision making during our purchase in 1998. While making our offer we stopped at the brokerage to look at the new version of our boat (a 1986 model termed by our skippers as the "Mark I" compared to the new post 1994 or 5 "Mark IIs). The new boats were twice the price we were going to pay for a 12 year old boat in pristine condition, to say nothing of all the things we'd have to buy *$$$!!! to outfit a new boat.

The major differences between the boats was the elimination of teak above decks.

We actually liked the teak look better, much better. Over the years, of course, we have dithered and doddered over the teak teatment, doing the varnish, oil, cetol, natural routine.

I'm still glad we made that choice, even though the teak is MORE work than my friends with the Mark IIs.

However, after 21 years of solely DIY maintenance, I reflect on the fact that the albeit limited amount of teak on my boat (compared to the Baba) is only a fraction of the effort required in properly maintaining ANY boat.

An examination of the multiple SYSTEMS and related equipment clearly indicates that the teak, in and of itself, is a small fraction of total annual or even cumulative effort.

Even the skippers who just jumped in and went sailing for the day have the SAME work involved with engines, hoses, electrical systems, plumbing systems, interior care including cleaning and cushions, exterior canvas, sails, winch maintenance...the list is endless, but I trust you understand my message.

It's kinda like statistics: it depends on the point you want to make and what one uses for a baseline or comparison.


Teak vs. no teak is one. Whatever amount of teak vs. the ENTIRE upkeep effort is a much more applicable comparison, IMHO.


Will wolfgal have more work doing her teak than I have on my Mark I or my friends' Mark IIs with no teak? You betcha!

But in the overall TOTAL of maintenance effort I submit that the additional effort for the teak remains but a small percentage of the overall maintenance required for any recreational boat, whether it's Clorox bottle or "good old woody" with a fiberglass hull.

I'm just trying to put it in perspective. It's your point of view, I believe.

Good luck, wolfgal. There is great merit in being able to look back at your boat from the dock or the dinghy with a contented smile of appreciation for the choice you made to buy your particular boat. I know it's true 'cuz i got up at dawn to take my avatar photo from our dinghy.

[TrentePieds]

Wolfgal:

A fact of life that is often overlooked by "modern man" (including "modern woman") is that teak was used in ship construction long ago only when THERE WAS NOTHING BETTER AVAILABLE! To wit: HMS Ganges, built in Bombay two hunnert years ago. Built from CHEAP local timber, cos that was the best and cheapest option available to the Lords of Admiralty when they needed a new 2nd rater to support the operations of the East India Company. But the world changes. Tectona grandis ("CP" teak or "Central Plateau" Teak) was never plentiful, and has now essentially been eradicated as a commercial species because use of the awful stuff became fashionable.

So why did it become fashionable? Two reasons: 1) We Sunday sailors are driven by romanticism. Even Robert Perry, the Baba 30's daddy, makes no bones about that. We Sunday sailors got our start in Blighty, under the Empah, and you and I are heirs to a tradition that sez that if the RN uses it, it MUST be good as well as divinely ordained! Ergo - T. grandis is the way to fly for yachts. 2) After WWII — an era that I doubt you have personal experience of — a "pent-up" demand from the depression and war years led to an unprecedented spread of suburban blight across every nation that had been involved in those events, and all these new ticky-tacky boxes put up during the two decades from '45 onwards had to be filled with furniture — read "modern Danish". T.grandis was the material of choice because, used for furniture, it costs diddly-squat to finish. A cost accountant's dream! Have you ever tried to "French polish" something as simple as a slab door or a table top? Well, then you know what I'm talking about, and you'll know why teak, with its modest needs of an oily rag and cheap donkey labour, was favoured by cost accountants :-).

Aboard ship, teak has NO use on deck that cannot be served better by other species, including Sitka spruce and ash. My rubbing strakes are Oregon Ash (Fraxinus latifolia). If you are in Europe, F. excelsior will do just as well. A finishing material that is difficult if not impossible to get these days is "lead varnish". "Lead varnish" is how sailormen used to refer to paints based on lead oxide. Though the EPA has kittens at the very mention of it, it is an EXCELLENT finishing material for many above deck uses, and it is as "low maintenance" as you can wish for.

So having got all that off my chest, let me address your likening the relationship twixt boat and owner to (other) interpersonal relationships. You do know that ships have souls, don't you :-)? Bei mir, the key to contentment in both kinds of relationships is pulling on the same trammel. Bei mir, you are EITHER a cruiser or a racer. Trying to be both — whether woman or boat — can only lead to frustration and discontent, so self-awareness is the key to it all. The term "cruiser/racer" is a TOTAL oxymoron. NO boat can be both. I think the very existence of the PHRF handicapping scheme is testimony to that! For a man or a woman to try to be both can only lead to cognitive dissonance. Asking a boat that was born to be a cruiser to be a racer is totally frustrating and dysfunctional. To ask a boat that was born to be a racer to be a cruiser is even more so. But as long as you don't make THAT fundamental mistake, you will little by little rub the rough corners of whatever boat you have, And vice versa :-)

If it is a cruiser-type-sailor you wish to be, I think the Baba30 is an excellent choice. So would be many of her near cousins. TrentePieds is about as commodious as a Baba30 and MyBeloved and I can comfortably spend weeks in 'er at a time. If it were only me, I'd rattle in 'er :-). Now, in a world that had permitted me to gather more wealth than I did, I would, of course, have preferred, say, Arthur Robb's "Radiant" [also known as "Renown" — there we go with the romanticism again :-)!]:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/radiant-48-robb

But, just like with person-to-person relationships, you are always better off staying within your social class :-)!

Cheers

TP