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Old 19-02-2020, 10:37   #46
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
If a manufacturer could come up with a basic 25'-30' real sailboat new for under $30K we'd see an explosion in the consumer demand. But that can't happen if the manufacturers of simple aluminum tube (mast) want an arm and a leg for just that component. And that's applicable to all the boat's components.

You'd think that a simple yet modern and good-sailing 25' weekender/beer-can racer could be made and sold for USD$30k ... but it would require the economies of scale to get down to that price, I imagine.


I am surprised that there's no boats being made in large quantities from the Far East.



A mast is a pretty fancy extrusion. If there was a new high-volume boat manufacturer ordering masts by the hundreds, the price for those would drop.
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Old 19-02-2020, 10:41   #47
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

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You'd think that a simple yet modern and good-sailing 25' weekender/beer-can racer could be made and sold for USD$30k ... but it would require the economies of scale to get down to that price, I imagine.

I am surprised that there's no boats being made in large quantities from the Far East.

A mast is a pretty fancy extrusion. If there was a new high-volume boat manufacturer ordering masts by the hundreds, the price for those would drop.

It's not so much the cost to attain one, it's the cost to keep it, and to put all the fancy gismos on it.
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Old 19-02-2020, 11:36   #48
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Getting a cheap boat used is one thing, paying 2-3 times the cost of the boat for a slip is another.

I cry when I hear the cost of slips in the UK or the Med. I am very happy to keep my boat in The Netherlands where the price of slips is affordable.

Last time I was in P'town, MA, I paid $30 a foot. That was over $100. I can get a nice slip in Sixhaven directly across from the main train station in Amsterdam for 20 euros.

My old boatyard even raised their prices from $600 for the whole year with a lift out and in to over $3000.

Maybe if some marina owners would stop gouging the sailors, there might be a resurgence in sailboat owners. Powerboats can be trailered back to one's home. Not so easy with a keel boat.
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Old 19-02-2020, 11:38   #49
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
You'd think that a simple yet modern and good-sailing 25' weekender/beer-can racer could be made and sold for USD$30k ... but it would require the economies of scale to get down to that price, I imagine.


I am surprised that there's no boats being made in large quantities from the Far East.

A mast is a pretty fancy extrusion. If there was a new high-volume boat manufacturer ordering masts by the hundreds, the price for those would drop.
If there was a big demand for inexpensive sailboats at a price point at $25,000 some entrepreneurs would start marketing restored used sailboats.

There are plenty of boats in the world, many are just unused and waiting to be scrapped.

The problem is not that we need more boats to be displayed at the boat shows, it is that we need more sailors who want a boat.
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Old 19-02-2020, 12:15   #50
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

How many horse buggy are sold every year? Vis a vis cars?
How many spare hours people have in the current society?
How many choices young people have to entertain themselves?

Is no mystery that those with a little bit of time to spare will gravitate to powerboats. Is fast, few variables to consider, fits modern time considerations

Then there is the rest of us who are committed to sail powered craft
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Old 19-02-2020, 12:28   #51
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

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Originally Posted by carlosproa View Post
How many horse buggy are sold every year? Vis a vis cars?
How many spare hours people have in the current society?
How many choices young people have to entertain themselves?

Is no mystery that those with a little bit of time to spare will gravitate to powerboats. Is fast, few variables to consider, fits modern time considerations

Then there is the rest of us who are committed to sail powered craft
There are a lot of things about sailing which I cherish, but the best time of every sailing trip is when we shut off the motor, about 100mt out of the marina.

I've done a lot of powerboating, for about 30 years, but there is nothing like the silence of a sailboat heeling to a nice breeze and sailing swiftly to windward. I crave that.
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Old 19-02-2020, 17:06   #52
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

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There are a lot of things about sailing which I cherish, but the best time of every sailing trip is when we shut off the motor, about 100mt out of the marina.

I've done a lot of powerboating, for about 30 years, but there is nothing like the silence of a sailboat heeling to a nice breeze and sailing swiftly to windward. I crave that.
A wise man told me many years ago.....A man with a power boat gets in his boat to go somewhere. A man with a sailboat gets in his boat and he is there!
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Old 19-02-2020, 18:17   #53
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

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A wise man told me many years ago.....A man with a power boat gets in his boat to go somewhere. A man with a sailboat gets in his boat and he is there!
yep, that’s it in a nutshell.
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Old 19-02-2020, 18:24   #54
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

That man was the President of Air Florida airlines in Miami! Theodore Q. Griffin! I will never forget him! He was a great boss with unimaginable foresight. He left Eastern Airlines in the early 1970s to start a new kind of airline in Florida!
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Old 19-02-2020, 19:48   #55
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

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Maybe the answer to the question re: fewer sailboats at boat shows says more about marketing than the market? In years past, a boat show was one of the two main ways a builder could connect with a buyer (magazines being the other). With Yachtworld, targeted internet ads, and what seems like further consolidation of builders, using the Boat Show as a barometer of sales may be a bit misleading?

I think you are on to the explanation here. sAme thing is happening at auto shows. Fewer cars and fewer manufacturers at the big shows. While it is nice to lay hands on real metal and fiberglass, they can’t bring every single boat design to every show.
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Old 24-02-2020, 08:15   #56
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

The power boats that were on display at the Annapolis show were primarily center console day fishing boats, there was not what I would call a lot of cruising troller/ tug style vessels, where as the sail boat show witch was noticeably larger was almost all cruising vessels, virtually no day sailors.

Having worked the motor boat show I was surprised that it was not as big or as well attended compared to the sailboat show, although it was the highest attendance for the motor boat show according to what I was told by those running the operation. Imo, the sailboat industry in the long run is shooting themselves in the foot by pricing themselves out of most people’s capacity to purchase a new boat, there were virtually zero sailboats under 100k, as opposed to there being very many motor boats under 100K.

Fair winds,
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Old 24-02-2020, 08:21   #57
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

The number of boat shows that it is worthwhile for a manufacturer to exhibit at in Europe is getting smaller. Dusseldorf in January and Southampton in September are the two predominant ones I know. The Excel boatshow in London in January stopped entirely and prior to that was less and less a sailboat show.

There are dinghy shows - in the UK the RYA run one. This is where the boaters of the future are going to come from.

Clubs in the UK struggle to maintain their membership due to changes in demographics.

Sailing has to compete with other leisure pursuits. As well as the change in people preferring to "rent" (charter) rather than "own" high value assets.

Want to have a market for your boat in future? Take some folk to sea and show them a good time!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 24-02-2020, 08:26   #58
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Dusseldorf Germany is by far the largest show world wide, but indoors only.
The ratio sail to power is reverse in Europe from the USA. Europe has more restrictions on power boats on inland waters, but competitiveness and romance of sailing are both more a European culture, while America is power. Also motor homes are huge in the USA.

Generally, the sailboat for modern times has not been invented: Maintenance-free, self-parking, cheap and easy storage facilities on land. Hi-speed engine and fold-out surf blades, auto-furl sails, and joy-stick sheet control.

My wife does not want to sail anymore, since I "repair all the time". I love my Endeavour 43 ketch, always looking for crew, but all get older, dockage is expensive, so I will sell her.
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Old 24-02-2020, 08:27   #59
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

When one looks at the cost of keeping a sailboat it is not surprising.In the UK there has always been the view that if you own a yacht you are rich.Looking at the cost of keeping a yacht in a marina, one assumes the industry thinks the same. Many sailors in the UK now keep their yachts in marinas in France.The French god bless them, consider all water sports should be accessible to all classes of people. A lot of world class events have moved to France because British ports want to bleed the organisers dry. Even before you anchor around the coast in Britain some blood sucker arrives in his boat demanding payment for the privilege of dropping your anchor, even if sheltering from bad weather.
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Old 24-02-2020, 08:28   #60
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Re: Where are the sailboats?!

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The number of boat shows that it is worthwhile for a manufacturer to exhibit at in Europe is getting smaller. Dusseldorf in January and Southampton in September are the two predominant ones I know. The Excel boatshow in London in January stopped entirely and prior to that was less and less a sailboat show.

There are dinghy shows - in the UK the RYA run one. This is where the boaters of the future are going to come from.

Clubs in the UK struggle to maintain their membership due to changes in demographics.

Sailing has to compete with other leisure pursuits. As well as the change in people preferring to "rent" (charter) rather than "own" high value assets.

Want to have a market for your boat in future? Take some folk to sea and show them a good time!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s the same everywhere

I was just talking to a sailmaker that I have known for 40 years

Very few new clients
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