Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-02-2020, 16:07   #31
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,771
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Just came back from New England/Boston boat show. Attended may be 15 times in the past 20+ years. This year may have seen the fewest number of sailboats there. Couple of Hanses, IP 349 and I think a Bene 45 or some such. The only positive sigh is that all of them had fairly long visitor lines although not as long as in the years past.

None had their masts up although in previous years mast up was the norm as the ceiling allows for that. Perhaps it is indicative of our current "safety first at all costs" mentality which is not very conducive to sailing in the first place.

On the negative side all the sailing/cruising gear vendors were sparsely visited or at least so it seemed. All insurance brokers (except one) were very flippant to a guy (me) asking for a lliability only quote on a 40 year old sailboat. And perhaps this is an indication what the marine industry in general thinks of good old boat owners.

Except for a few "last day of the show" deals on some clothing (which I already have plenty off) there was nothing there which I would be interested in AND could afford. If it wasn't for comped tickets from a marine industry buddy I would be upset at wasting $16 per ticket. In the old days you could at least get a 1 year subscription to a sailing magazine with the ticket but since Progressive got into the game they stopped that and all you get out of the deal is a more or less sturdy plastic bag.

I also noticed an increased (compared to years ago) presence of pontoons, skidoos and other such toys. The whole sections just for them. So as some pointed out earlier may be it's not the lack of money but lack of interest which drives the decline of interest in sailing as opposed to motoring or lounging on the water.

My personal opinion that sailing in particular but boating in general, as an activity for an average Joe or Jane, has suffered from being priced out of the average middle class budget. Not just the cost of the boats, those have been reasonable in the used market but all the other associated costs have skyrocketed. And that does not bode well for the industry down the road.

Very few of us started with $300-500K new boats. Most/many got in in their 20s and 30s with a used 20-25 footer then climbed up to bigger sizes. There is nothing comparable to that entry population. The millenials either are too poor or too distracted by all the gadgets in their vicinity to sit stil for a bunch of comprehensive ASA courses.

BTW Newport show over the years also gotten less salty and more "lifestyle merchantly". Stopped going there about 5 years ago. Why gawk at 1mil 50+ feet cats which even 10 years from now I won't be able to afford? Now if they could come up with a well built 35-40 foot mono for under $120-150K that would be a game changer. Heck, they did it with computers why not do the same with sailboats.
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2020, 16:26   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: California
Boat: Spindrift 46 Center Cockpit
Posts: 15
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Don CL

Nice picture of Pelican. Yes, some places like Santa Cruz Island are less used. Perhaps people just donít go out as much. Perhaps it is because people going out overnight are concerned that they donít have wifi and other wireless services. Certainly at Santa Cruz Island, we have no Verizon, wifi or other service.

On the other hand, Catalina Island locations that have mooring balls installed and that do get phone service are still crowded.

We do have three friends, two from Channel Islands Harbor and one from Ventura Harbor, that switched from sail to power in the last year. All three are over 60 years old.

We are in our late 60ís and early 70ís and thinking that we may have to rethink our boat use in the next few years. Certainly, it is expensive in upkeep. Besides slip fees, bottom cleaning and standard maintenance we have spent more than $15 k in the last year on things like dinghy davits, canvas cover replacement, heat exchanger replacement, et cetera. There are some strength issues also, but we have made some boat modifications to take care of most of those issues.

On the other hand, we have a motorhome. No slip fees because it stays in the side yard. No bottom cleaning. There are costs related to towing our ďdinghyĒ, generator maintenance, et cetera. However, these things are much less expensive than boat things. Also, we can receive satellite TV at night and the motorhome doesnít drag anchor.

Part of the situation in older folks is that we have a fixed income and need to be careful of the costs. The boat costs much more than a motorhome. On the other hand, we have more time and time slows down on the boat.

Still, whenever I bring up the subject of perhaps selling the boat when we get into our late 70ís, my wife does not like the topic. We have had so many great times, she does not wish to see them end. One of the things about a boat is that you have to take it out or it will deteriorate so likely we will be out to the islands of California next week.
frantzjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2020, 17:30   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Kent Island Md
Boat: Catalina 42 2001
Posts: 34
Lightbulb Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Not trying to state the obvious but if you are looking for sailboats go to a sailboat show not a boat show. I didn't see one powerboat at the Annapolis Sail show last October..go figure. I also would assume at Trawler Fest in Baltimore this winter there weren't any Amel's . As you can expect it is ton of money just to be at the show as a dealer . I suspect possibly they are just being more selective based on audience.
Anyway... there was once a time that if you owned a boat it was a sailboat ..no other options. Then came the combustion engine that created all kind of options. If I like to fish I surely don't want a 27 ft sailboat. If I like to wake surf I surely down want a trawler. If you like to race you surely don't want an Island Packet .. and on it goes. Options should be a good thing...yes?
__________________
Bayboy
David Sandowich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2020, 17:51   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: Watkins 29
Posts: 383
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Just came home from the Miami International Boat Show. There were probably 20 very very large cruising catamarans and a half dozen of monohull boats. That was it! In the manufacturer displays indoors, aside from the electronics manufacturers, I saw 3 or 4 displays dedicated to sailing or sailboats. Ive also noted that yacht clubs here in Miami that traditionally had mostly sailboats at their docks are now almost exclusively power boats! This is true in Ft. Lauderdale Yacht club as well!

I wish I could explain it! I guess the skill and dedication needed to obtain those sailjng skills is diminishing in our fast paced world today!

Another thing I noticed at the show today was the preponderance of outboard motors on very large cabin cruisers! A typical 37 foot cruiser with 3 or 4 300hp outboards was quite common! There were alot of boats that one would expect to have inboard diesels that now have v8 4 stroke outboards. I just found that to be an interesting tidbit!
dennismenace111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2020, 18:33   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New England. USA.
Boat: McCurdy & Rhodes Custom 46
Posts: 1,278
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Just came back from New England/Boston boat show. Attended may be 15 times in the past 20+ years. This year may have seen the fewest number of sailboats there. Couple of Hanses, IP 349 and I think a Bene 45 or some such. The only positive sigh is that all of them had fairly long visitor lines although not as long as in the years past.

None had their masts up although in previous years mast up was the norm as the ceiling allows for that. Perhaps it is indicative of our current "safety first at all costs" mentality which is not very conducive to sailing in the first place.

On the negative side all the sailing/cruising gear vendors were sparsely visited or at least so it seemed. All insurance brokers (except one) were very flippant to a guy (me) asking for a lliability only quote on a 40 year old sailboat. And perhaps this is an indication what the marine industry in general thinks of good old boat owners.
........
.


So I was at that same show on Friday afternoon. I was surprised at how few sailboats there were. But ...
The four brokers I know well, used and new, said they were happy with the show. Actual significant sales numbers.
Maybe lowered expectations, maybe good news.
The show has definitely been moving towards power over sail in the past decades.
Iíve utterly given up on other than specialist insurance brokers for my 48 yr old sailboat. And they wonít be at a show. Too niche.
I saw insurance brokers at that show who turned me down cold over the phone, and walked by.

On another note the Maine Boat Builders show in late March is a blast. Lots of mom and pop builders and vendors. The big dogs mostly stay away.
Again mostly power but the people make the show. You are talking to the man or woman who laid the glass in the mold. Vendors such as R&W Rope.
Everything Iíve seen there is beautiful. Sometimes pretty. Sometimes brutal 20í power boats but so so functional they are beautiful.
dfelsent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2020, 20:58   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Live in Boise, boat is in the Rio Dulce
Boat: 56' CNSO Mikado Cutter Ketch
Posts: 367
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Been to Strictly Sail in Ft Lauderdale FL and Berkeley Ca. Both huge turnout.
Mikado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 01:13   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,361
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarian View Post
The USA is not the centre of the World nor boating , were do people get their data from or as usual the experts that know everything , sometimes a little leg work , research and fore though dispels these rumours that are always abundant on CF, every sailor knows best

https://www.berthon.co.uk/yacht-sale...ening-remarks/

The USA is a pretty large and affluent market. What are you suggesting that link tells us?
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 03:59   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 5,441
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Something I've found weird in life as a genx person is that I'm always the youngest guy at the marina.

THIS IS STILL TRUE!! Decades later.
Chotu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 04:17   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 5,441
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Is it also possible no one dreams of traveling the world by small boat anymore?

I mean that's what a sailboat is for. I'd love to travel the world by small powerboat. So convenient. Easy. Yet it's physically impossible for the most part. Can't carry enough fuel.

I've noticed some weird trends in food too. It doesn't matter if it tastes good anymore. It's how eye catching it will be for the 'Gram. Gone are simple looking meals that blow your mind taste wise. If your restaurant doesn't have colorful, elaborate, entertaining food, you're as good as dead.

Something similar may be happening to boats.
Chotu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 06:13   #40
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,771
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfelsent View Post
On another note the Maine Boat Builders show in late March is a blast. Lots of mom and pop builders and vendors. The big dogs mostly stay away.
Again mostly power but the people make the show. You are talking to the man or woman who laid the glass in the mold. Vendors such as R&W Rope.
Everything Iíve seen there is beautiful. Sometimes pretty. Sometimes brutal 20í power boats but so so functional they are beautiful.
I also like that one. Just don't get out there lately. But used to go there more often with my boatbulding buddy when he lived around here. Totally difereent animal over there. Agree that the vendors are small town mom and pop types not the city slickers at your typical big box store type shows.

In general I do think it's chicken and egg type of issue. The vendors just reflect the desires and needs of the atendees. The question is how to cultivate the love of sailing in the next generations of boaters. The marine industry in general seems to turned their back on the development part and just wants to maximize their profits today and the h*ll with the future.
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 06:27   #41
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,771
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Something I've found weird in life as a genx person is that I'm always the youngest guy at the marina.

THIS IS STILL TRUE!! Decades later.
Perhaps it is beause your marina is on the pricey side so the "yuts" can't afford it. At my hoi polloi mooring field we have all ages represented. May be there is still hope.

On the other hand, around the corner at the sheeshee harbor it's 50s and up mostly. Or kids using their grandpa's mooring.

IMO it all comes down to $$. You price something too high and see the number of customers fall. Imagine if the 1950s prices of computers kept up as is, we'd never have as many of them in our lives as we do today. If a manufacturer could come up with a basic 25'-30' real sailboat new for under $30K we'd see an explosion in the consumer demand. But that can't happen if the manufacturers of simple aluminum tube (mast) want an arm and a leg for just that component. And that's applicable to all the boat's components.
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 07:02   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 164
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Maybe life is moving to fast for most people to go slow boating. 8n my small marina there are 30 plus power boast and,only two or three sailboats.

Wondering if the currently lower price of fuel has something to do with it?
skipper53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 07:03   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: I'm in St Pete, boat is Ensenada MX
Boat: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Posts: 1,701
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Maybe the answer to the question re: fewer sailboats at boat shows says more about marketing than the market? In years past, a boat show was one of the two main ways a builder could connect with a buyer (magazines being the other). With Yachtworld, targeted internet ads, and what seems like further consolidation of builders, using the Boat Show as a barometer of sales may be a bit misleading?
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 09:21   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Boat: Between boats
Posts: 1,039
Images: 1
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Maybe the answer to the question re: fewer sailboats at boat shows says more about marketing than the market? In years past, a boat show was one of the two main ways a builder could connect with a buyer (magazines being the other). With Yachtworld, targeted internet ads, and what seems like further consolidation of builders, using the Boat Show as a barometer of sales may be a bit misleading?
I'll stick to talking about the show I mentioned in the OP and say that, yes, might be.

Juho linked to Traficom's data earlier and I checked that 2015 - 2019 the percentage of new sailboat registrations to all new registrations has been between 0.31% - 0.80% (average 0.53%). No amazing drop there. But no earlier data unfortunately.

Still, for every 1000 new boats, only about 5 are sailboats. This seems like roughly the ratio I saw at the show
__________________
Call me Mikael
nakedsailor.blog
mglonnro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2020, 10:04   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Papillion, Nebr
Boat: Catalina, 250, 25'
Posts: 6
Re: Where are the sailboats?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Is it also possible no one dreams of traveling the world by small boat anymore?

I mean that's what a sailboat is for. I'd love to travel the world by small powerboat. So convenient. Easy. Yet it's physically impossible for the most part. Can't carry enough fuel.

I've noticed some weird trends in food too. It doesn't matter if it tastes good anymore. It's how eye catching it will be for the 'Gram. Gone are simple looking meals that blow your mind taste wise. If your restaurant doesn't have colorful, elaborate, entertaining food, you're as good as dead.

Something similar may be happening to boats.
Chotu, your comment regarding food and it's analogy to boats is well made.

Went to Seattle boat show 2 years ago for the first time. Very few sailboats on display. Had it not been for a good side show by a couple well known sailors, I'd of been disappointed.
jbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, grass, sail, sailboat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contest Sailboats Andiamo Monohull Sailboats 30 04-10-2020 08:45
Gozzard sailboats kyanps Monohull Sailboats 11 26-02-2020 15:41
Creekmore Sailboats mathion Monohull Sailboats 9 17-03-2013 11:48
CF Sailboats Stede Monohull Sailboats 6 22-12-2012 04:42
What Sinks Sailboats (wood excluded)Ė Survey delmarrey Construction, Maintenance & Refit 48 16-03-2006 23:21

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.