What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

[Chotu]

A plastic fantastic (Beneteau, Catalina, Hunter, etc...) is EXACTLY the type of boat you need.

Known depreciation curve, a huge market for them, tons on the market, pretty straightforward to handle with common systems, nice looking interiors, etc.

Just what you need for your first boat.

Easy to get into. Easy to get out of.

Originally Posted by jsal

I think I might've not been clear in the OP, I apologise.

Just to clarify; Neither of us even know if we'll enjoy sailing at all. We were planning on taking RYA courses this year, but Covid's + life's put it off for a bit. Once we've experienced that and if I am keen for more punishment, I may join the local sailing club, sail little dinghies/regattas, etc. and the plan is to basically sail/help out on on other people's boats as often as I possibly can to essentially know for sure if this is something I definitely want to be throwing money and time at before even considering buying a boat, as I mentioned in the OP.

The goal of this post was not really to ask for suggestions for a specific boat for my needs as we all have our own specific needs and having never sailed before, I don't exactly know what those needs are for me apart from overall safety and (relative) comfort whilst on passage for the wife and kid. I was literally just wondering about what boats actual sailors would pick if they were in a similar position as I am just out of curiosity.

That and if my logic was sound as I've often read that "plastic fantastics are a bad idea", though I don't necessarily agree especially in a case like mine where it might actually be the perfect solution (unless I'm going to liveaboard and cruise all over the place, in which case that bridge shall be crossed then). It's most likely what sailorboy1 mentioned earlier:



Keep the advice rolling in in any case! it's actually been really valuable to me. I appreciate you guys taking the time to share some knowledge!!

[Hudson Force]

Some of the factors that can make a sound "coastal cruiser, plastic fantastic, or production vessel" a successful "Blue water cruiser" are:

- Close attention to maintenance
- Planning in regards to weather and seasonal routes
- Proper safety equipment and following safe practices
- Flexibility to adapt plans with changing conditions

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by jsal

I just want to preface this by saying that I have never sailed before and I'm just in the "dream" phase at the moment, so there's no budget or experience here. I don't plan on buying anything anytime soon either as we have some other priorities to tend to first. I'm just curious.

For some reference; My wife and I now live in Germany and we've both been talking about getting on the water and at some point buying a boat to cruise around in - for now we're thinking the Med would most likely be our cruising ground. We also have an 18 month old and those dreams (of mine, let's be honest ) of eventual ocean crossings and such might have to be put on hold for now. My wife is also not keen on living aboard, nor is she super keen on super long passages. All of this might change if she turns out to really be into it. For now though, I'd probably need a comfy boat to hop along from coast to coast with whilst my family is onboard and do some more adventurous stuff with some mates.

Basically, for now, I'm thinking the sort of sailing we want to do is most likely going to be coastal for the most part, but I'd like to eventually dip my toes into some more adventurous sailing and be in a boat that I know can take some abuse.

I know that a production boat can most definitely take a lot more abuse than most people might give them credit for, and I feel like the sort of boat I should be looking at is probably one of these production boats that I can easily sell and upgrade to a bluewater boat if that's the sort of sailing we decide we want. How realistic is that?

I was also curious to hear what you would think are boats that fit into this middleground between coastal and bluewater cruising seeing as most of you probably know your boats and have a wealth of experience to refer to. If you were in a situation like me, what would you be looking at?

Do either of you get seasick? Just one more consideration.

[jsal]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Do either of you get seasick? Just one more consideration.

We used to dive a lot when we lived in a warmer, coastal country and so we’ve spent quite some time on boats. I tend to be a bit more prone to seasickness than my wife. It hasn’t been a massive dealbreaker before and we’ve found that we either get used to it, or some ginger ale makes it a bit more manageable if jumping into the water isn’t possible.

This is a good point though. I do suffer from tinnitus after many years of being a touring musician. I wonder if that may have something to do with being more prone to seasickness and if that may cause other issues down the road.

[Fore and Aft]

Jsal thinking about it more, a sugar scoop is a must for our family. Countless times we have sat on it while the kids swim behind the yacht. Adults seem to get sick of swimming quicker than kids.
I hope you have your 18 month in swimming lessons, having the kids comfortable around the yacht makes life so much less stressful for parents.
Any plastic fantastic will do for a taste of the sailing life.
Cheers

[KiwiKen]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Here's the answer you really should consider:

• Now you can charter something and try how thgs work out with the family. A very good cruising ground for a week of charter or two is Croatia or Greece. Tons of charter bases, beautiful and rather safe sailing, good infrastructure. Perfect for a first charter.
• And only then start to think about whether you want to buy a boat at all.
• If you decide a boat is the right way to go for you and your family, now you'll have some idea what's important to you in reality to start with boat selelction

Another useful advice:

Stay away from the boat fair in Düsseldorf until you have the money in your pocket to buy a boat and know what you want. It will only confuse you with wrong priorities otherwise.

It is along time since I have done the sums, but when a student of mine was looking to buy a Moody 44, and when one takes into account the cost of ownership, against the number of days per year you are going to be sailing the vessel, it is frequently cheaper to charter unless you are likely to spend quite a lot of time sailing.
1. Opportunity cost of the capital outlay (down in these days of low interest rates)
2. Berthage, not insignificant if you leave the vessel on a marina.
3. Insurance
4. Depreciation, unless you buy a boat over 10 years in age this is significant
5. Maintenance, a major item, especially if one buys a boat over 10 years old.


The point is these unavoidable ownership costs can run into thousands, and if you don't use the yacht regularly, it can be cheaper to charter.


Of course owning v chartering, there is the pride of ownership and that can be priceless.

[David B]

Originally Posted by jsal

I just want to preface this by saying that I have never sailed before and I'm just in the "dream" phase at the moment, so there's no budget or experience here. I don't plan on buying anything anytime soon either as we have some other priorities to tend to first. I'm just curious.

For some reference; My wife and I now live in Germany and we've both been talking about getting on the water and at some point buying a boat to cruise around in - for now we're thinking the Med would most likely be our cruising ground. We also have an 18 month old and those dreams (of mine, let's be honest ) of eventual ocean crossings and such might have to be put on hold for now. My wife is also not keen on living aboard, nor is she super keen on super long passages. All of this might change if she turns out to really be into it. For now though, I'd probably need a comfy boat to hop along from coast to coast with whilst my family is onboard and do some more adventurous stuff with some mates.

Basically, for now, I'm thinking the sort of sailing we want to do is most likely going to be coastal for the most part, but I'd like to eventually dip my toes into some more adventurous sailing and be in a boat that I know can take some abuse.

I know that a production boat can most definitely take a lot more abuse than most people might give them credit for, and I feel like the sort of boat I should be looking at is probably one of these production boats that I can easily sell and upgrade to a bluewater boat if that's the sort of sailing we decide we want. How realistic is that?

I was also curious to hear what you would think are boats that fit into this middleground between coastal and bluewater cruising seeing as most of you probably know your boats and have a wealth of experience to refer to. If you were in a situation like me, what would you be looking at?

We have no idea what your budget is, but as you describe it, I see comfort, convenience and safety all sitting equal here.

You want this to be a very positive experience - you don't want your dream to become a nightmare.

It was similar for us - we (just my wife and I - then each just about to turn 60) had never owned a 'proper yacht' before. A sailing dingy, then a 22' trailer sailer was our experience (and not much of that either), but the dream of 'sailing the Med' before it was too late called, and we decided to take the plunge into a new 50' mono - fully equipped to really be our 'floating home'.

I got the "if you want a happy wife" bit, quite often in our selection process, so we are very comfortable on our boat, with A/C, washing machine, desalination plant, generator etc. No regrets, no 'camping', but quality living, and wonderful experiences.

As for the type of boat, have a look at the entry list for the ARC - the event is dominated by production boats such as Bavaria, Beneteau, Hanse, Jeanneau etc.

So particularly with your wife in mind, make the experience as pleasant and comfortable as possible. If your budget allows it, go for a good size where you have room to life, and the facilities to make living as easy as it is at home.

[KP44]

On the old windjammers and whaling ships when they gave out a tot of rum to the crew, it was called, "Splicing the main-brace."

The main-brace is the strongest part of the ship. It is the crew that holds it together and sails the ship.

Most production boats are capable of blue-water conditions. About 90% of good seamanship in in being prepared.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by KiwiKen

Of course owning v chartering, there is the pride of ownership and that can be priceless.

On the other side, you can charter easily in different areas. If you have to transfer the boat every time, this can be a major undertaking.
Chartering makes a lot of sense.

[boatman61]

Seeing as you are asking what we would do in your position I will tell you what I did.. bear in mind in my case it was two adults and no kid..
I bought a 24ft boat that I spent just over a year restoring and adapting.. could not sail straight away as my leg was in plaster for near 18mths recovering from a rebuilt shattered knee cap.
However when launched that boat served me well for two years, the first year spent exploring local waters and slowly venturing further afield.. the second year using it to take a solo RYA practical/theory test with just the examiner on board taking me through my paces.. despite limited headroom she was comfortable enough for weekends and longer and capable enough the take me across the 80nm to France and the Channel Islands.
Be sensible.. Folk love spending other people's money..

[elses_pels]

I am also a dreamer so happy to chime in.
Look for something that you can both singlehand relatively easily. That way the second person can get a good off-watch sleep. the production boats are meant to be a bit twitchy so need more attention (I only know this from reading); on the other hand they are comfortable and shiny.
I would not go too big, it will be costly in marinas and maintenance.
If you want a name, I chose a Twister 28 for me, BUT I will be sailing solo most of the time. That I am quite sure. I picked a project boat and will fit it with the minimum of gear. I don't want to spend to much time fixing things. All in all, the advice given by others seem to be the best, a 30 footer production boat with a sugar scoop or swimming platform would be my target if I was on your boots.

I hope that helps, keep dreaming, without dreams we are just monkeys!

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by elses_pels

the production boats are meant to be a bit twitchy so need more attention (I only know this from reading);

You better check those things again as it totally contradicts my experience. Production cruising boats are usually running quite well under autopilot and if designed for chartering tend to be under-canvassed anyway.

Don't expect stellar performance - I could agree with this, but twitchy? Not really.

Sure a Figaro 2 or a Pogo are different beasts, not talking about those.

[Clivevon]

"I feel like the sort of boat I should be looking at is probably one of these production boats that I can easily sell and upgrade to a bluewater boat if that's the sort of sailing we decide we want. How realistic is that?"
Much more realistic than worrying about what makes a bluewater boat at this stage, As many have said, any buying decision is wa-a-a-ay premature.
Do some sailing. Enjoy it. Just - enjoy it & see how it goes.

[Cadence]

Skill!

[jimbojonesbos]

Originally Posted by Chotu

A plastic fantastic (Beneteau, Catalina, Hunter, etc...) is EXACTLY the type of boat you need.

Known depreciation curve, a huge market for them, tons on the market, pretty straightforward to handle with common systems, nice looking interiors, etc.

Just what you need for your first boat.

Easy to get into. Easy to get out of.

100%, forget the "Blue Water boat" thing. 99.99% of sailors will have all of their needs met by a production boat. I mean unless the dream it a Northwest passage, trip to Antarctica or to spend 25years in remote Pacific atolls.



And a decent production boat is still capable of such things if it is well taken care of, it would however need more refit after the big event and you'd be seasick more often.



Besides if you are just dreaming watching youtube sailing videos you need to understand that physical discomfort is a huge part of life at sea. Its not all beautiful people frolicking naked on picturesque beaches.



Charter first, buy later.