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Old 11-03-2021, 12:08   #31
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

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On the old windjammers and whaling ships when they gave out a tot of rum to the crew, it was called, "Splicing the main-brace."

The main-brace is the strongest part of the ship. It is the crew that holds it together and sails the ship.

Most production boats are capable of blue-water conditions. About 90% of good seamanship in in being prepared.
KP44

The mainbraces are the lines that trim each end of the main yard, not a part of the ship structure.
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Old 11-03-2021, 13:05   #32
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

Hi, there, Welcome to CF.

My experience has been starting out with a 30 ft. S & S (Sparkman & Stephens) design called a "Yankee 30." My husband and I sailed that boat to Hawaii and back to San Francisco, when we were at the stage of seeing if we liked ocean passages. The point is that starting smaller and then going cruising in the smallest boat that suits the two of you and is competent is one very reasonable plan. My Jim had had two small day sailers, and a Catalina 22 before I met him. If you have the money, we met a couple on a Django, who had sailed her from France to Patagonia, and wound up here in Tassie for a while. There are British and European smaller boats. It is my opinion that starting small, and with previously owned boats is a better way to go. It keeps costs down while you develop your own ideas about what you prefer as a couple. Buying previously owned, and small keeps many costs down.

One issue you and your good lady will have to work out is who takes care of the child, and when, when you are out sailing. If you do all the boat driving and fun parts, your wife will never develop the competencies she will need to be good crew for you, and for her own pleasure, so working towards a functional equality of skills will benefit both of you.

Here is a link to a thread where a Danish cruising lady gives advice to men about how to get your wife into sailing. It may be more germane to your good lady wife, than my experiences. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-i-180999.html

Ann
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Old 11-03-2021, 14:26   #33
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

jsal:

I was following this thread in a rather desultory fashion and concluding that you haven't been getting particularly satisfying answers :-). But what you HAVE got is the best kind of answers anyone can give you given the way you asked the original question, viz “What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser “

That question indicates to me that what you know about sailing comes from reading glossy magazines. That's perfectly reasonable and okay since Leipzig is not known for having a solid seafaring tradition :-)! The terms “coastal cruiser” and “blue water cruiser” are no more than marketing mens' advertising fluff. The long and the short of it is that ANY boat may be used for coastal cruising, i.e. for sailing from port to port as you would do in the Danish “South Seas” or in the Aegean, and any boat may be taken “blue water” across oceans. But remember that it is not the boat that takes its crew safely from port to port or across oceans. It's the skipper that takes the boat and its crew safely from port to port and across oceans.

So my recommendation to you is to set out for yourself – and for us if you would like us to be some real help to you – what psychic satisfactions it is YOU expect to derive from cruising. What are the personal psychological needs you expect cruising and boat ownership will fill for you? Once we know that with some precision, we will be in a far better position to suggest to you what sort of boat, perhaps even what specific make of boat, will fill those needs.

After that, we can build into the analysis what needs your wife and child might wish cruising and boat ownership to fill for her. And what fears YOU might have to assuage for HER before your dream can have any real hope of being brought to fruition.

So I offer you this to think about: If “running away to sea” is a desire prompted by dissatisfaction with some circumstance in you present life, then “cruising” will do no more than augment worries and dissatisfactions that have one kind of sources with more worries and dissatisfactions that have different kinds of sources. All in all, it would most likely lead to a “net loss of satisfaction”.

Regardless of what sort of sailboat you might pick up in a port such as Lübeck or Greifswald, I, like most other sailors with a few miles under their keels, could teach you the basic boat handling in a weekend. HOWEVER, becoming the sort of skipper that can take a boat and its crew safely “blue water” takes years and years. Look at Ann Cate's post (#32). Ann and her husband have been it happily for over for years :-)

All the best to you

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Old 11-03-2021, 14:51   #34
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

Hi, again, jsal,

Trente Pieds did let the cat out of the bag, a bit. Jim and I have been at it over 40 yrs. I was already sailing, though, when I met him, so he did some but not all of my "polishing." I sailed with a few other skippers, one of whom actually made the effort to train all his crew in all of the positions. That was a very good experience for me, and I'm sure I learned far more by osmosis than one can learn in brief lessons. Sailing on other people's boats (OPBs) is informative for both skills and boat layouts: seeing what you prefer, and using it, so you get a feel for layouts and equipment you prefer.

Ann
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Old 11-03-2021, 15:48   #35
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

Jsal, as others have said, you're getting the right practical advice from the most experienced sailors about the questions you need to ask and answer for yourself.

The answer to the question you did ask is "every well-built cruising yacht is a good compromise for someone," which doesn't really help you.

OF course you're in Germany, where, some might say, the material answer to your question has been produced: The Sirius 35DS. If you have $500,000 to spend, their designers try to solve every problem a cruiser might have for every scenario. Videos of happy families cruising in them abound.

I haven't sailed one, so I can't give you an informed opinion. One of my goals once it's possible to travel is to figure out a way how to get on one.

What I can suggest is, parroting the advice of previous posters, is learn to sail, and sail lots of boats.

I have cruised in 20 makes and models of cruisers in the 30-40' foot range, so I know 20 makes and models that are not the perfect compromise for me.

Best wishes, and let me know if you ever get to sail a Sirius.
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Old 11-03-2021, 16:01   #36
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

Agree with most of the great advice. I have done offshore passages on a variety of boats and I’ve been uncomfortable at times on all of them. Most of it is dependent on conditions. So, many love the idea of extended offshore passages but the reality is most folks start out cruising with small coastal hops and Anchorages every day. So get the boat that you feel most comfortable on at anchor because it will meet that design brief perfectly well when you don’t really know what you like and don’t like. Later on, you can decide what really matters in a boat. And, buy newer and updated rather than “salty and old”

By the way, the way you phrased your post really brought out the best in most of the replies which avoided the usual owner bias. For example, from my boat owner perspective I would say “get a boat from a high-quality production yard designed by a classic and well-known designer.” And that fits my wants but the cockpit and cabin are small compared to modern 40 footers so that may not be as appealing to new spouses getting into cruising.
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Old 11-03-2021, 16:11   #37
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

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Agree with most of the great advice. I have done offshore passages on a variety of boats and I’ve been uncomfortable at times on all of them. Most of it is dependent on conditions. So, many love the idea of extended offshore passages but the reality is most folks start out cruising with small coastal hops and Anchorages every day. So get the boat that you feel most comfortable on at anchor because it will meet that design brief perfectly well when you don’t really know what you like and don’t like. Later on, you can decide what really matters in a boat. And, buy newer and updated rather than “salty and old”

By the way, the way you phrased your post really brought out the best in most of the replies which avoided the usual owner bias. For example, from my boat owner perspective I would say “get a boat from a high-quality production yard designed by a classic and well-known designer.” And that fits my wants but the cockpit and cabin are small compared to modern 40 footers so that may not be as appealing to new spouses getting into cruising.
Not to sidetrack the flow, but Malbert your boat looks like it would be a pretty good compromise for a lot of people. Sailed a Tartan 31 but the 40 is a whole different cupcake.
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We ran aground at 2300. Dad fired off flares all night, to no avail. In the morning, Mom called the Coast Guard and demanded to know why they had not responded. "But ma'm," came the abashed reply. "Yesterday was July 4th!"
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Old 11-03-2021, 17:14   #38
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

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Not to sidetrack the flow, but Malbert your boat looks like it would be a pretty good compromise for a lot of people. Sailed a Tartan 31 but the 40 is a whole different cupcake.


Thanks! It’s a spectacular boat from my perspective and I consider myself lucky to have bought it in my 40s to enjoy for the last 7 years and counting

But every once in a while I admire a twin wheel huge cockpit with drop down transom
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Old 11-03-2021, 18:32   #39
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

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Thanks! It’s a spectacular boat from my perspective and I consider myself lucky to have bought it in my 40s to enjoy for the last 7 years and counting

But every once in a while I admire a twin wheel huge cockpit with drop down transom
They're great for admiring, especially when you're climbing out of the water in some nice protected bay. Here, admire away!

In any kind of weather—including that breeze Kira is struggling with in my avatar—I prefer your boat.
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We ran aground at 2300. Dad fired off flares all night, to no avail. In the morning, Mom called the Coast Guard and demanded to know why they had not responded. "But ma'm," came the abashed reply. "Yesterday was July 4th!"
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Old 15-03-2021, 07:00   #40
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

Blue water vessel with a short keel. Irwin 43 is a good example.
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Old 15-03-2021, 07:53   #41
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

You've had lots of great answers here. First is to get you and the family sailing. And decide how much time and money you want to put into sailing in the next few years. We chose to buy a smaller yacht to learn, and then gradually moved up. Others charter for a few years which also gives you the opportunity to try out different boats. Definitely look for some courses to give you a leg up while you build the miles.

Once you have done some of this you will be ready to list your likes and dislikes for boats, rigs, equipment, etc. And hopefully will have done at least a couple of extended trips to see if offshore is for you.

Until then choosing a boat will be a lottery. FYI we opted for coastal cruising and have never been unhappy with our choice. We have no intention of crossing an ocean, but have crossed the english channel many times and done passages from the east coast to Belgium and Netherlands as well.

Depending on where you are in Germany, the Baltic offers a great cruising ground.
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Old 15-03-2021, 08:38   #42
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

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Depending on where you are in Germany, the Baltic offers a great cruising ground.
In Europe and the Med you can do nearly everything with costal cruising only or rare very short hops further than 20nm from the coast. (eg. Denia-Ibiza is only 50 nm, same with Ibiza-Mallorca, Elba-Corsica less than 30nm).

A coastal cruiser is the perfect choice for these areas, specially considering that the wind in the Med changes three times a day minimum.
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Old 15-03-2021, 08:42   #43
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

For many coasts shallow draft or retractable daggerboards are a graet advantage, making no sense on blue water. But they should be very well designed and proven out - critical component.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties
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Old 15-03-2021, 10:19   #44
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

My suggestion to your posted info, especially with no experience & an 18mo is to stick to the canals in Europe.

Charter a canal boat, get your feet wet that way. They will teach you to a certain extent.

You'll see a lot more of Europe that way, be in a protected environment and have a more stable platform for the baby.

Once you've exhausted the canals then look for a trawler. Cruising isn't always about a sailboat.

Good luck.
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Old 15-03-2021, 10:21   #45
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Re: What's a good compromise between a Coastal Cruiser and a Bluewater cruiser?

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I just want to preface this by saying that I have never sailed before and I'm just in the "dream" phase at the moment, so there's no budget or experience here. I don't plan on buying anything anytime soon either as we have some other priorities to tend to first. I'm just curious.

For some reference; My wife and I now live in Germany and we've both been talking about getting on the water and at some point buying a boat to cruise around in - for now we're thinking the Med would most likely be our cruising ground. We also have an 18 month old and those dreams (of mine, let's be honest ) of eventual ocean crossings and such might have to be put on hold for now. My wife is also not keen on living aboard, nor is she super keen on super long passages. All of this might change if she turns out to really be into it. For now though, I'd probably need a comfy boat to hop along from coast to coast with whilst my family is onboard and do some more adventurous stuff with some mates.

Basically, for now, I'm thinking the sort of sailing we want to do is most likely going to be coastal for the most part, but I'd like to eventually dip my toes into some more adventurous sailing and be in a boat that I know can take some abuse.

I know that a production boat can most definitely take a lot more abuse than most people might give them credit for, and I feel like the sort of boat I should be looking at is probably one of these production boats that I can easily sell and upgrade to a bluewater boat if that's the sort of sailing we decide we want. How realistic is that?

I was also curious to hear what you would think are boats that fit into this middleground between coastal and bluewater cruising seeing as most of you probably know your boats and have a wealth of experience to refer to. If you were in a situation like me, what would you be looking at?
You have answered your own question, "...I feel like the sort of boat I should be looking at is probably one of these production boats that I can easily sell and upgrade to a bluewater boat if that's the sort of sailing we decide we want."

Remember that there is no perfect boat, they are all compromises making tradeoffs of one feature/specification for another. Boats are designed for specific uses/markets and waters, i.e. don't buy a deep keel boat for cruising in shallow waters. While a boat may be successfully used outside its designed purpose that does not mean it was the wisest choice; this is particularly applicable when sailing a long ocean passage.

As safety and comfort for your wife and family is some consideration you can compare the specifications of boats on saildata.com or Google Sail Calculator Pro v3.54.

Lastly, nothing beats the viewing of sailboats to get the feel of what is right for you and your family. So use every opportunity to walk the docks and see what fits your family and what money will buy.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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