Unfortunate turn!

[sneuman]

I just went back to bumfuzzle site to confirm what i remembered reading months ago about how they chose the boat. The link "how we chose bumuzzle" (or whatever) seems to have disappeared.

as i recall, the entry detailed how with almost no research they had decided on the boat they wanted. correct me if i'm wrong, but spacious interior was a prime concern, while such issues as seaworthiness and build quality were left to the pros.

my impression was that actually researching boats would have been hard work and what's hard work, after all, when you should be enjoying pizza and

[mudnut]

My dream of late has been to buy a yacht,live-a-board ,learn to sail confidently by myself and cruise up and around the n/ne of my country"OZ".Some times I doubt my wisdom,reflected upon my ability and the fact that although I have heaps of seatime I have never sailed a boat at all,when I sercum to these doubts I always come back to this thread,and like the heavens opening up,I am reassured,for there is only one of me so If mistakes abound me and I get half as far as P&A have gotten then I would have acheived much more than I had hoped possible.While not having the monetry resourses that P&A have,which helped them from the start,I do have ternasity and above all ,I think,this is what they have plus endlest money,a boat and a love of Mac's,pizza and the need to be loved and forgiven for their stupidity by all.And once again my dream is alive just by knowing If they can do it!!!!I really dont have any problems at all.And my confidense is restored.Thanks P&A.

[Islandmike]

Maybe they are doing things a little differently, maybe alot differently than I will. Bottom line, they are doing it, not conventionaly, but doing it. I am sitting here in my office pounding on this keyboard and wishing like hell I was there not here. More power to them.

Mike

S/V Tivoli

[debby]

To the Bumfuzzle watchers...

They have made it to Assab, Eritrea; so
they are now north of Djibouti and into the Red Sea. Made it out of the pirate infested waters of the Gulf of Aden without incident but haven't had time to update their website yet.

www.bumfuzzle.com

Debby Miller

[thor]

Sneuman as I said before .. they went to the BEST Catamaran specialist and listened to what they told them...

Before they bought the boat they had the best known Surveyor check out the boat.... He is the guy who is SPECIALIZED on Cats and helps with a couple of Catamaran specific publications. I think he wrote a couple books about Cats as well..... He doesnt like Wildcats , even more reason to check a little deeper in my opinion.

Seaworthiness.... I had to listen through at least 30 minutes of bull about that boat being seaworthy like no other. I listened to almost the same stuff on the neighbor boat at the show ( Prout 37 or 39 ) Than I walked over to PDQ and they were not too much bull-sssss around but showed me things in their boat which they thought were different, and explained why ... Surely a nice boat with sincere people.

One cannot blame them for choosing that particular boat. Not at all...

What have I learned about this ? Never trust a surveyor, I will never use one, unless the surveyor will take at least SOME responsibility about obvious defects. ( And they will not do that)

Thor

[sneuman]

Thor -

I am not sure i agree. i too hired if not the best, certainly one of the best surveyors in hong kong before i bought my boat. he found but 30% of the problems that i did. on my own, i spent the time getting dirty to see what the problems were - looking at the engine, the deck-to-hull joints, the osmosis in the hull, the termite damaged bulkheads, etc. ultimately, i knew what i was getting in for - a damn good boat that had 30 years of problems that could be fixed.

frankly if p&a had hired a second-rate surveyor in an effort to save a little money i might have had more sympathy for them, but like everything else, they could afford "the best" and that relieved them of having to know anything for themselves.

in short, they let money substitute for educating themselves about the boat, and that's the philosophy that seems to inform their whole way of doing things: you got a problem, hire someone else to fix it so you can go off and eat pizza.

if cruising is about self-reliance (and by definition, it is), p&a are not cruisers. they are tourists. that's how they found themselves in the middle of the pacific with no clue how the systems on their own boat worked!

It would be as if i suddenly had the "crazy idea" to climb Mt. Everest: I know nothing about mountaineering, pulmonary edema, tyrollean traverses or crevases. but with lots of money, I could hire someone to worry about all that. Chances are, I will make it. Then again, I just might end up as a frozen corpse.

nearly everything is possible with unlimited financial resources. if money weren't an object, how many who visit this site would instead be off on a circumnavigation of their own?

What I think I'm trying to say is p&a deserve our envy, but not our admiration.

am i unfair and off base here?

[CaptainK]

No sneuman.

You're not "off" base here.

You are absolutely right, about everything you've said so far in your recent posts on this thread.

[thor]

I think I just prooved a point...

Pat and Ali cannot win against all the wisdom on this board.

The funny part is , that they actually not trying to win anybody over . They are out there mingling with different cultures and having a good time.

While they are searching for a mcDonalds or Pizza Hut. I know EXACLTY where I have a quick dinner ... every MONDAY TUESDAY WEDNESDAY THURSDAY FRIDAY ......

thor

[Talbot]

they went to the BEST Catamaran specialist and listened to what they told them...
Before they bought the boat they had the best known Surveyor check out the boat

In that case they either totally ignored what they were told, or they were hung out to dry by their specialists. Each person can make up their mind which is more likely by reading their story (the one about painting safety equipment grey comes to mind)

[messingabout]

I'd just like to say;
I for one shall miss this thread. It's added a bit of controversy into this forum. Something it is lacking. I have learnt a lot reading many of the threads. Of all, the most entertaining and informative has been this one. I'm the first to admit I'm not a sailor's b_m, which is why I don't contribute to other threads but I'm oftern listening to all the advice and am thankful for that. Even when I have a question I can usually find plenty of answers just by searching.
I guess the thing I like most about the bumfuzzles is their honesty and that of all the cruisers' sites, theirs has the most frequent updates. I also like A's sense of humor and wit with a bit of healty sarcasm thrown in for good measure.
One of my favourite bits is form their first night on the boat;
"Around midnight we woke up because of a strange sound on the boat. I thought it sounded like bacon frying in a frying pan. I looked over the whole boat and finally gave up trying to figure out what it was. Today I was talking to our neighbor who is on a 40 foot catamaran, he laughed when I told him about the noise and explained that it was just barnacles attaching themselves to the bottom of the boat. Weird. "
I think that's just what it sounds like.

[teamivey]

I just saw an orange mob pole on a catalina here. Ours and most everyone elses is white with an orange flag.

[Joli]

Man, some of you guys are rough. P&A are out there doing it and having fun while they are doing it. Do they have the most experience? No, but they are learning as they go and the problems the've encountered have not damped thier enthusiasm. Good for them, they will have a lifetime of great memories.

[capn_clyde]

Hello,

Pat and Ali have done an incredible job. First off, they have balls. To take off as they did, takes that. You have to cast off. I've done it, I understand. We did it on a shoestring budget. I would rather have done it on a budget like Pat and Ali's - it does help. Never the less, champaign budget or cheap rum budget you still sail to the same places and have the experience.

Cruising in my experience is one of the few things in life that brings rich and poor together to interact. There are poor cruisers out there, I've seen plenty. We have an old saying in the carribean which basically says don't anchor near the beat up, super delapitated French boat with the four young people on it! Of couse that is a stereotype but like most there is a hint of truth behind it. It doesn't have anything to do with being French, it has to do with being broke 1/2 a world away from where you are from, and how you react.

I applaud Pat and Ali and look forward to meeting them when they pass through my neck of the woods in Salinas, Puerto Rico. And we will.

These forums, I've never read them before or posted, can be interesting. In my opinion, anybody who wants to badmouth how Pat and Ali are doing it, can. But... I won't pay much attention to them unless they've been out there for at least 1/2 a year and gone through the things you go through in the cruising life style. Minus that, I'll pay them the attention they deserve - very little.


Clyde

[Ed Steele]

I have only just found this thread and I am not surprised at the reaction to Bumfuzzle’s travels but I am truly saddened. As best I can determine from the postings, Ali and Pat have three cardinal vices:

1) They were 28 when they began the adventure.
2) They don’t cook.
3) They poked fun at the sailing establishment who sit around in marina-side bars and pontificate on the “correct way to sail”.

On the first vice: I never for one second assumed that they were “trust” babies or someone was sponsoring them. I has been my life experience (I am 58 and a student of human nature) that folks who have not earned their way, are not likely to keep up a daily log of their adventure and are not likely to begin the adventure in the first place.

I have categorized cruisers to 3 types. Type one is young and broke, perhaps just out of college and may be found on the 23 footer with no VHF or navigation lights and who will offer to clean your hull, paint a wall or baby-sit your kids for cash.
Types two are the young professionals, taking a sabbatical and grabbing an adventure while they can. They are usually on a timetable and on a budget and are usually quite savvy and streetwise. (This is where I put Bumfuzzle).
Types three are the retirees (me included) who fill the spectrum of society. They are probably not on a timetable and their budget will vary wildly.
We are all cruising together and for the same reasons. We are out here to have fun and to seek adventure.

On the second vice: I am lucky to have married a fantastic cook. Sailing is not entirely about eating. If Bumfuzzle got to the Mediterranean (and they did!) they did not get there simply by sailing from one McDonalds to the next. If they enjoy fast food, fine. They did not say in their log that they would turn their nose up at gourmet restaurants. My guess is that these establishments are not in their budget.

On the third cardinal vice: Can’t you folks tell when your leg is being pulled? Just compare their article written for water sailing">Blue Water Sailing versus the article for Latitudes and Attitudes. From reading their website and from the two sailing magazine articles I read, it is obvious that Ali and Pat have meticulously researched and planned their trip. It is also obvious to me that the crew of Bumfuzzle knows more about repair and maintenance than many other cruisers we have met. Their web site does not read like they cut and pasted everything directly out of Encarta. You just have to read their logs to see that they prefer to ride public transportation and to journey to the interior of the countries they have visited. They have met and interacted with real people and have formed their own opinions of the various cultures, instead of reading and parroting someone else’s opinion.

Blue water sailing is an extreme sport and Bumfuzzle cannot be as they are portrayed in the thread – like some errant DWI case that is bouncing off random countries like a deranged pachinko ball.

Ali and Pat, if you ever see this posting – I thoroughly enjoy your web-site and will look forwards to owning your book whenever you slow down enough to put it together.

Ed Steele

[Lodesman]

Well said, Ed!