Originally Posted by sneuman
I am not sure i agree. i too hired if not the best, certainly one of the best surveyors in hong kong
before i bought my boat
. he found but 30% of the problems that i did. on my own, i spent the time getting dirty to see what the problems were - looking at the engine
, the deck-to-hull joints, the osmosis
in the hull
, the termite damaged bulkheads, etc. ultimately, i knew what i was getting in for - a damn good boat
that had 30 years of problems that could be fixed.
frankly if p&a had hired a second-rate surveyor
in an effort to save a little money
i might have had more sympathy for them, but like everything else, they could afford "the best" and that relieved them of having to know anything for themselves.
in short, they let money
substitute for educating themselves about the boat, and that's the philosophy that seems to inform their whole way of doing things: you got a problem, hire someone else to fix it so you can go off and eat pizza.
if cruising is about self-reliance (and by definition, it is), p&a are not cruisers. they are tourists. that's how they found themselves in the middle of the pacific with no clue how the systems on their own boat worked!
It would be as if i suddenly had the "crazy idea" to climb Mt. Everest: I know nothing about mountaineering, pulmonary edema, tyrollean traverses or crevases. but with lots of money, I could hire someone to worry about all that. Chances are, I will make it. Then again, I just might end up as a frozen corpse.
nearly everything is possible with unlimited financial resources. if money weren't an object, how many who visit this site would instead be off on a circumnavigation
of their own?
What I think I'm trying to say is p&a deserve our envy, but not our admiration.
am i unfair and off base here?
I must admit, I am somewhat beside myself after reading this post. I am quite certain, given my background, that what I say here will be ignored, and/or ridiculed, but I cannot let this stand without some retort.
1) When they found themsevles short of expertise, the kind that takes a lifetime to build, they hired the best they could find. They didn't take a manufacturers word, they didn't take 2Hulls word, they hired the best, and presumably most objective, individual(s) they could find to evaluate the boat. People with years of experience, training
, and certification
. Given the complete lack of standards in the boating
industry, and after extensive reading on yachtsurvey it is far worse than I would ever have thought, they did what anyone should do. What were they to do? Spend 10 years learning
about boats from the ground up? Maybe build one? I've no hard information on their pasts, beyond they worked in Chicago, and the mention on here of their having worked in commodities trading. Long, hard, hours of high expectation, high pressure work
. What would you have people who grow up in the Midwest and work
in places like Saint Louis, Chicago, Denver, etc do? Buy a laser dinghy
and spend a year sailing it out on some local pond? I've heard that suggestion before. It ranks right up there with learning
to shoot with a .22 I've no intention of going that route
2) Somehow hiring a "second-rate" surveyor
to save a few dollars is going to gain them more empathy than doing the best with what they had? This makes the least sense of any statement I have come across. Hiring less than you can afford and justify for the purchase
of what will be a 5 year floating home is somehow understandeable vs. getting the best and still having this happen?
3) Hire someone to do it? Hell yes, if I could afford to I certainly would. You know what you do when you are on a schedule, you hire a professional to do it. The line splicing bruhaha. If I went to a marina hardware
store and they told me they didn't know how to splice a line, I would be shocked as well. That is the rough equivalent of going to garage and having them tell you that they do sell oil
, but no, they don't know where it goes in the engine
. Or taking your laptop
in and having them tell you they sell hard drives, but no, they don't know the difference between a 2.5" and a 3.5" You don't have any gaps in your knowledge, great, the rest of us do. We fill them in with specialists. That has been the trend of the world for how long? For what reasons again?
4) Cruising is about self-reliance? I must have missed that memo. I want to go places. See the world on my own timetable, and in my own fashion. Guess I'm not a cruiser. I mean, who needs an expensive watermaker
? That's what small tanks
and salt water
showers every 3 days are for right? Radar
? that's just a fad. Unless of course, you know how to tear them down and repair
them from the ground up.
Tell you what. You are leaving in 6 months to 1 year. You have no/little boating
experience, none of your friends or family
have any history
with boats (that I know of.) What do you do? If Ali and Pat had followed the "conventional" wisdom they would probably be sitting dockside in Florida
right now, watching their dinghy
bob up and down and taking **** for drinking an imported beer
. By the time they left, if they left and hadn't scared themselves half to death reading and listening, they would probably be 10 years older. Not everyone has your knowledge or the time and money to gain it. We aren't all Lazarus Long.
"Go off and eat pizza." - You are really stuck on this food
thing aren't you? Something about the existence of fast food
, video games, movies that don't qualify as works of art, etc just offends your sensibilities doesn't it? It isn't 1969 anymore, and the movement is over. Virtually everyone I know below the age of about 32, doesn't know how to cook, and couldn't care less. It isn't worth the time or effort to them, or often enough, to me either. The two roomates I just got think that Hamburger Helper is a fine meal and cookies come in either a box, or for the good stuff, come in a half-frozen roll next to the biscuits at the grocery store. They eat at McDonalds, Sonic and Chinese buffets. So what?
My approach is as different from theirs as it is from yours. I have begun what research
and reading I can. I am a systems and research
kind of person. I once spent 3 months researching projectors and sound systems, etc, before buying
my own. I've since built about 5 for family
, friends and myself. Know why I could do that? I had the time and it was in my nature to do so. If i had been working 60 hour weeks in some completely unrelated field, I'd have spent about 4 hours tops and had it installed.
I've been learning about diesel
engines, generators, lightning
protection, rig options, balance and buoyancy, materials technology, the list is seemingly endless. 3 weeks at sea, guess what, first thing I do is grab a Rum
and Coke and some pizza. I'd be craving
pizza by that time. I'm not adventurous with my food as a basic rule
. If I'm praying to the porcelain God or hugging the throne it should damn well be from drink and not sustenance. I want to know how everything on the boat works and why because that is my nature. Guess what, if I could afford it now, I would be taking sailing lessons
and getting some certifications. While my boat was being built.
I'm not going to buy a smaller monohull
or cat and learn the ropes in that fashion. I'll get my training
, probably grab some more experienced crew and then I'm gone. I will be 15 years their senior when I leave compared to their age when they return. I would do it differently if my finances allowed in the fashion
I will accept. That means A/C, at least for the tropics since I cannot sleep when hot.
Sailing is how I would like to get there. It appeals to me in various ways, period. Apparently, I am neither going to be a "cruiser" since any "self-reliance" on my part will be a product of my curiosity, and I won't be a sailor because I don't want to fly a hull
I apologize in advance for some of the comments (like the 1969, movement one.) But this post just really chapped my hide. You have a wealth of sailing knowledge, great, I'd be happy to learn. No, I wouldn't paint
pole grey. I'd probably stripe it for contrast, but the radio
watches are high on my list of safety equipment
. I don't measure up to your standards for sailing/cruising because I'm more interested in going somewhere than pushing my boat or I actually want food I know I like, fine. Guess I can live with that. Hell this post may well earn me a ban, guess I can live with that too.