"Pirates" off Gibraltar

[jojolimited]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Oh that's a loaded question..

So that comment of mine was in relation to "is one allowed to shoot individuals who try to board without permission, not when they escape, when they actually try to board?"

In most EU countries if someone breaks into your home or boards your boat you can't take out a weapon a shoot them. You always have to justify your actions and use appropriate force. If someone threatens you with a soggy noodle as a weapon and you use a gun, you are going to be in big trouble. If you didn't have a license for that weapon that you just used then you're likely going to get charged for that also, which could mean doing some jail time.

Just because they board your boat doesn't mean they want to kill you - they could just be looking for a spare cigarette!

I understand. Some states in the USA have similar laws. But what do you do if they board your home and they threaten you? Ask them nicely to leave? I believe in non lethal deterrents when ever possible, but if the situation calls for it, what then?

[tiMoun]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Thankfully not in Europe, and especially not as a private citizen.
Still, I think law enforcement should have the option to stop fleeing pirates by all means.

When I was sailing in the Seychelles, the Spanish Air Force was on NATO rotation for pirates. I got to know some of the pilots and asked them what did they do when they found a RIB out in the middle of no-where? "They often did not get to go home" was the reply. I would say there is good reason to fear the Spanish CG when they show up.

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by sail4677

You try to board my vessel after I make it clear to bug off and you will be extremely sorry you picked the wrong vessel to mess with. I am not risking a hostage situation, or harm to my family.

Just be sure that you kill them ALL, and sink the bodies.
Cleaning up the blood would be a good idea too.
Do you think you have the guts for it?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Chotu

See, still the wrong approach. Guns are not fun. They are not playthings. It’s because you were hanging around with a gun nut I think you have the wrong idea.

I don’t want a gun. I don’t enjoy shooting a gun. I never want to have to use my gun. Ever. But, when there are no options left, it’s my last resort.

I also believe the “when in Rome “ idea and follow the laws of anywhere I visit to a T. I always learn at least the basics of the language.

I often drive into Canada for little escapes in the summer. I put my gun into storage near the border inside the States before I go.

The difficulty with boats is in many cases we are taking our home places. We want to be able to defend our home from aggressors. I’m guessing (without knowing for sure) that the Straight of Gibraltar isn’t in Spain or Morocco’s control and a right of free passage exists for say, Russian ships to pass. Am I wrong?

In this case, if being attacked, you’re good to go trying to defend yourself. You are Within the law (or lack there of ).

If I’m pull into Galway and still have the defensive weapon aboard, I’d certainly be following the laws of Ireland regarding this weapon.

The Irish laws do NOT prohibit me from temporarily importing my firearm at Galway. It’s a matter of filling out the correct paperwork.

No idea why you are railing on against breaking the laws of places when you visit them with firearms. For Galway, I’d merely have to fill out this form:

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/non-eu...ndividual.docx

Note: Ireland is possibly the last place on earth I would feel the need to bring one anyway. Ha ha. Much like Canada.

People are just way too extremist about this stuff. And way too fearful.

Both sides are out of touch, much like politics. We have gun nuts who are passionate about guns, love them, can’t wait to kill with them, want to brandish them and take them out to fire warning shots and just for fun.

Then we have anti gun nuts who are petrified of them, want to ban them and see anyone with them as crazy and potentially a law breaker in some areas.

The proper response, like most things, is a responsibile, measured approach somewhere in between.

Extremist views are rarely a good idea

Well said Chotu!

[Gwernymyydd]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Oh no socialist parties, how dreadful.
In Europe we have a very wide political spectrum and amongst other also social-democrates play a long history in this.
I am not necessarily voting for them, but I do feel that they play a very valuable part in politics.
With their help we have a far less devisive and much more liberal democratic political climate in most of the European countries.

I am absolutely for helping those folks who have nothing if ourselves live in an abundance of prosperity and wealth.
We can even afford our boats and leisure.
Nothing wrong with that, but I feel that prosperity also comes with duties towards the less well off.

The story of cultural havoc in Sweden or any other of the European countries is a myth blown out of proportion by a guy who thinks that people in Vienna (capital of Austria) live in a forest with wooden houses.

I have absolutely no objections against the fact that some of my hard earned tax money is going into helping empoverished nations on their feet and helping to prevent the death by drowning.

Migration has to be stopped at its source and not when folks are fleeing.
Fueling revolutions without a proper plan on how to handle the aftermath is not clever either.

Put yourself for once in the shoes of someone who's family is starving to death and you may take another view on this.

Interesting enough the radical right wing parties have their biggest anti migration supporters in areas of Germany where there are almost zero migrants.

I am not against immediately throwing out people who treat their new host nation wrong by committing crimes. They show that don't appreciate the help they are offered and should be evicted immediately.

End of story for me at this point because these discussions are usually not fruitfully.

Well said Franziska

[sail4677]

Well said

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Weapons are the last resort. When it comes down to life or death. They are not toys.

Unless, of course, you are a cop.

[Rebalaje]

It would have been the first pirate attack since the pirate Drake in the area.
I guess that real pirates would not abandon an attack forced by a boat hook.
Probably they were drug smugglers that mistaken the boat with a mother ship. Those are very active in the area.

[weavis]

Here is the good news the mods are alive and well.

Any more personal attacks and we will infract the poster and ban for a period of time.

Enough already...............

You know who you are.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Stewie12

The drugs trade has been severely damaged recently in La Línea in Spain. It was out of control and the ribs were landing faster than the customs boat could get there. They even had radar and refuelling in the straits. Over 500 police and Guardia Civil were brought in the drugs gangs were eventually broken up and their control over the town was over. It is likely that the ribs mentioned were Spanish as the Moroccans do not have that kind of money and do not normally transport drugs or people smuggling themselves. On the other hand maybe they were now out of work and a bit of piracy seemed like a good idea. There was a documentary series made about it.

What was the point? They don't have an Eyl there to withdraw, even Algeria would hand them out not to mention Morocco. Sounds like a robbery in front of the police station to me.

Instead of shooting them I'd be very interested in questioning them, what the &#,!?.. were they doing?

Originally Posted by taxwizz

Just be sure that you kill them ALL, and sink the bodies.
Cleaning up the blood would be a good idea too.
Do you think you have the guts for it?

That's part of the problem: they're in a fast RIB, once you start shooting, they have a choice just to run away and you have no chance to catch them.

[conchaway]

"The new normal"-- what happened to people having the Pelotas to defend themselves? Remington makes a great shotgun called the Mariner. Fight back, or stay home and watch MSNBC.

[UDIU]

There is only one way of action.the Spanish navy and airforce should patrol locate and shoot them just like in gulf of Aden.
Otherwise they get more and more courage.

[fritzthecat]

Originally Posted by Franziska

What is worry some, is that the article states that some high powered ribs had been surveying the anchorage which they departed already last year.
So it's maybe not a one off. The scariest would be hostage taking.

I am all for helping refugees, especially those in unseaworthy boats. We have a humane duty there.

But these sort of thugs should get a very resolute answer. Shame that it's not possible to shoot at them when they try to escape.

Not good.

We have no human duty there, the migrants have no rights whatever to cross to Europe! Europe is more crowded than Africa- the Africans have to breed less, if they can´t feed their kids! It is the African political system to blame for not to care about their own breed!

[Ebbflow]

If you fear for your life, it’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

[syorca]

Originally Posted by ol1970

You could not be more wrong. There is no “myth” about cultural issues in Sweden, it is a stark reality. My wife is Swedish, her family lives north of Gothenburg which is a complete **** show. Her best friend is a police officer and there are entire areas where police are not allowed nor would dare venture into because they are now overrun with criminals (aka migrants). Just do a little research on the dramatic increase in rapes and crime in this once great country. My in-laws have seen their pension they worked their entire life for cut in half to pay for the ever growing migrant population that sucks off the tit of the socialist government to support people who refuse to even learn the language.

My opinion is from spending significant time there over the years, having family who lives there currently and friends who share with us what life is really like, and it is definitely not how you portray.

Living north of Gothenburg for all my life. There are areas with problems, which I suppose is the case in most other countries too, but its still a great country to live in.

And no: the pensions are not "cut in half to pay for the ever growing migrant population". When should that have happened?