Over and out

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by StuM

Correct as in "it is a standard proword"? Yes


Correct as in "an appropriate response to the OP's question"? No

(What's is the responder saying that they are going to do?

They are saying they will comply. If hailed by some LEO and they say turn left now, Wilco is an appropriate answer.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

OVER AND OUT is somehow offending and rude. It says translated "f××k you, you can continue talking as long as you want to (OVER), but I am not listenig anymore (OUT)."

Can't believe, USCG or any (trained) officials are saying this on the radio.

What bugs me more is that in many places the local language is used instead of English, even from the officials (like in France). And then they wonder if not getting a response.

Please allow me to politely disagree. What " over and out" means is that the user is returning the frequency to the other guy's control. There is no "fetc." involved, nor intended. It is the same as QRT, in ham lingo, which means quit transmission.

In my usage, I usually say I'm standing by, or returning to scan, but if I have to discontinue listening, then I have to say "out" or "qrt", depending on the radio being used. I need to let the other guy know if I will still be there or not. I also use "going clear" or "clearing the frequency".

Ann

[StuM]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

They are saying they will comply. If hailed by some LEO and they say turn left now, Wilco is an appropriate answer.

The Wilco was a direct response to the OP's "Am I the only one that cringes whenever I see or hear that expression?"


Hence my question

[StuM]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Please allow me to politely disagree. What " over and out" means is that the user is returning the frequency to the other guy's control.

...
It is the same as QRT, in ham lingo, which means quit transmission.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

Anywhere that radio procedures are taught formally (be it military or civilian) you will be taught the same thing.



"Over" means I am waiting for you to reply.
"Out" means this conversation is finished.


"Over and Out" is an oxymoron - the words are contradictory.


Secondly no one has "control" of a frequency. There are likely to be multiple stations listening and waiting for a gap so that they can communicate with someone. "Out" is a signal to them all that they can now start a new communication.. Over is a signal that the current communication is continuing and that you should not interrupt unless it is a matter of urgency.


And surely QRT means a lot more than Out. It is more like "Closing down and will not be listening any further"

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by StuM

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

Anywhere that radio procedures are taught formally (be it military or civilian) you will be taught the same thing.



"Over" means I am waiting for you to reply.
"Out" means this conversation is finished

Hmmm, common usage here in Oz at least, differs.

Over - means I have finished talking.
Out - means I have finished listening on this frequency.

So a common conversation might start with a hail on 16, then a request to go up to 72. Chat away, then finish with one person saying 'over', and the other saying 'over and out' - ie im done talking and going back to 16.

We do have a requirement for all VHF users to be certified via a formal course and exam, so its not exactly hillbilly uhf central...

Mike

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by MLOI

Hmmm, common usage here in Oz at least, differs.

Over - means I have finished talking.
Out - means I have finished listening on this frequency.

So a common conversation might start with a hail on 16, then a request to go up to 72. Chat away, then finish with one person saying 'over', and the other saying 'over and out' - ie im done talking and going back to 16.

We do have a requirement for all VHF users to be certified via a formal course and exam, so its not exactly hillbilly uhf central...

Mike

Hmm... common usage is not always common or correct.

My Oz experience is that Out = This is the end of my transmission to you and no answer is required or expected.

Which I believe is the correct understanding of that proword.

Unfortunately the training in radio procedure varies greatly and even when trained correctly, many revert to saying whatever the other guys are saying - just saying .

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Hmm... common usage is not always common or correct.

My Oz experience is that Out = This is the end of my transmission to you and no answer is required or expected.

Which I believe is the correct understanding of that proword.

Unfortunately the training in radio procedure varies greatly and even when trained correctly, many revert to saying whatever the other guys are saying - just saying .

I think I was trying to say much the same as you.

I certainly agree.

Btw I dont use over and out myself, but dont think it is offensive.

Mike

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by MLOI

I think I was trying to say much the same as you.

I certainly agree.

Btw I dont use over and out myself, but dont think it is offensive.

Mike

I'm with you, I don't find it offensive rather it just tells me something about the training of the operator who used it.

Now about the Hollywood classic - Roger Wilco, Over and Out.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

OVER AND OUT is somehow offending and rude. It says translated "f××k you, you can continue talking as long as you want to (OVER), but I am not listenig anymore (OUT)."

Can't believe, USCG or any (trained) officials are saying this on the radio.

What bugs me more is that in many places the local language is used instead of English, even from the officials (like in France). And then they wonder if not getting a response.

While English is the official languange for commercial ports world wide, there is no requirement for other local traffic to use English.

Cambio.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Wow, in all the years of communicating with USCG vessels I have never heard any of their radio officers use the term "Over and Out". They have been like parrots and used terminology as prescribed in the international radio operators handbook.

I hear it often. “Over”: I’m done talking, “out” this transmission/conversation concluded.

Example “blah blah blah, over. US Coast Guard (sector) out.”

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I hear it often. “Over”: I’m done talking, “out” this transmission/conversation concluded.

Example “blah blah blah, over. US Coast Guard (sector) out.”

There is no more talking after OVER either...

OVER means OVER. (as BREXIT means BREXIT [emoji12] )

[StuM]

Originally Posted by MLOI

Hmmm, common usage here in Oz at least, differs.

Over - means I have finished talking.
Out - means I have finished listening on this frequency.

So a common conversation might start with a hail on 16, then a request to go up to 72. Chat away, then finish with one person saying 'over', and the other saying 'over and out' - ie im done talking and going back to 16.

We do have a requirement for all VHF users to be certified via a formal course and exam, so its not exactly hillbilly uhf central...

Mike

I will bet that that usage is NOT taught on the formal course.


And from my experience sailing up an down the Qld coast on many occasions, many recreational sailors are sadly lacking in knowledge of radio procedures and COLREGs etc





You may like to peruse pages 12, 13 and 42 of this document. Note the absence of any reference to "Over an Out" :
http://allhandsondeck.com.au/VHF%20Radio%20Handbook.pdf


"This handbook is intended for the guidance of radio operators:
(a) On Australian vessels which are voluntarily fitted with marine VHF radiotelephony and marine VHF radiotelephony with digital Selective Calling (dSC) capability.
(b) On Australian vessels which are compulsorily fitted with marine VHF radiotelephony and marine VHF radiotelephony with digital Selective Calling (dSC) capability.
It is the recommended textbook for candidates undertaking the Marine Radio Operators VHF Certificate of Proficiency (MROVCP) examination."


It's also of interest to note the use of ROMEO, not ROGER for message received in this textbook

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by StuM

I will bet that that usage is NOT taught on the formal course.

I doubt it is either taught or expressly condemned - I don't recall.
I didn't mean to suggest it was, I just suggested it is in reasonably common usage, and the use of 'Out' in the context of "I've finished talking and I'm going back to ch 16" seems to be well understood. Yes, having 'Over' before it is redundant, but doesn't seem to either confuse or annoy anyone.

Except online of course

(I was first trained in VHF usage working for a gov. department in the late 80s, and I'm pretty sure we used Roger and WilCo. So I know I'm guilty of using them still even though I did do the LROCP course some years ago and probably should know better.)

Mike

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I was waiting for that . Do we have clearance Clarence?

[Jim Cate]

It's also of interest to note the use of ROMEO, not ROGER for message received in this textbook

"Roger" is a holdover from the phonetic alphabet used by English speaking forces during WW2. It began Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog, Easy, ... and included Roger for R.

Us old farts who began using such back in the dark ages (got my first ham license in 1949 iirc) just can't get our heads around this Romeo guy trying to replace our old pal Roger!

Jim