Need alternative to Pirate flag

[SV__Grace]

The globe is cool and might do the job by itself. What do the stars and tri-color flag represent?

Originally Posted by Wckoek

The late Dan Bombigher designed this flag:

[sepharad]

If you are in thrall to the one ring, the flag of Mordor

[DougM]

Interesting conversation. I read the posts in this thread and tried to count 'anti-pirate flag' vs 'just relax' vs can't tell. Seems like the anti's dominate. This dramatically differs from my experience in real life where most boaters i know think of pirate flags as fun.

I will interpret this as supporting my hypothesis of why the world feels so screwed up and hostile today - it is because those who are excessively serious, judgemental, have strong ideology, etc feel motivated to express on social media (like me stating this hypothesis i guess ) . Those who just live and let live dont speak up to anywhere near the same extent.

Which is all too bad. By any objective measure, the world is a much better place than it has ever been - collectively much more prosperous, 2 billion people lifted out of poverty around the globe in the last couple decades (ref - the economist for what it is worth), no major wars, and a huge number of people who can afford recreational boating!

If the world seems to smell bad, it is because we managed to stick out heads up our own butts. We just need to pluck our heads out and smell the fresh air.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Shrew

You might want to do some research into privateering outside of pop-culture.

I'm a history buff and am aware of privateering. Blackbeard was a privateer, which he agreed to do to escape hanging.

Being guvmint sanctioned doesn't make the practice (or flag) any different or better.

[sepharad]

Or if youre a space case

[MoodyS]

The coloured stripes are a national flag, the constellations, Plough and Southern Cross, are used to identify the North and South poles.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I haven't researched this yet, but is the classic skull and crossbones flag really just an overused cliché, or the historically accurate flag of one or more of the actual pirates?

For me, "pirates" were cartoon stereotypes (eg Peter Pan's "Captain Hook") long before I knew anything about the history of piracy. And given the letters of marque handed out by countries, can we say with certainty that they were all bloodthirsty rapey pillaging criminals, or were some more like mercenaries given a licence to attack and rob the vessels of specific "enemy" countries?

I'm asking here, I don't know.

Nowadays, to me the pirate flag flown on a recreational boat seems little more than a declaration that the owner likes to party, and that there will probably also be rum drinks, a paper parrot, and Jimmy Buffett tunes aboard. I don't have any visceral reaction other than maybe ewww...tacky.

This is an interesting perspective. Love Peter Pan and Captain Hook, but what we fly on our boat makes a personal statement, and even though the pop culture image of pirates a la Disney might be different than the real thing, EVEN IF REAL PIRATES NEVER FLEW THE SKULL AND CROSSBONES, the clear connection is a statement that grates on me.


Again, using the analogy of the Nazi flag, the swasika symbol is sanskrit and comes from ancient Indian religions (Hinduism, etc.), but no self respecting Indian or Hindu would fly a swastika flag nowadays and I've never seen a boater fly one either, thank goodness.


Tacky, YES! Culturally illiterate and tone deaf? Yes.


I choose the statements I make about myself with intention and alignment with my values, and it sickens me when partiers and others don't care about doing that.

[SV__Grace]

Sweet, I didn't know CF had a burgee. But I'm seeking an alternative to the pirate flag that more accurately represents cruisers to others.


For example, the image of Earth in a previous post would make a statement in alignment with my values as a cruiser, and when people see a boat flying such a flag they get an impression of who that boater is.

Originally Posted by GordMay

How about a CF Burgee?
Available here ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/burgee.html

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by DougM

This dramatically differs from my experience in real life where most boaters i know think of pirate flags as fun.

You're probably right. My idea of fun seems to differ from the high volume, drunken profanity I've experienced from many of those flying pirate flags.

Certainly not all of them but enough to make me keep my distance.

[capn_billl]

My go to flag is a parrothead sitting in a lounge chair with a margarita. Everybody needs to lighten up.

In the 20th century someone flying the skull & bones, and swinging from the rigging cutlass in teeth is somewhere on the bottom of my worries.

[SV__Grace]

Thanks for your perspective Jammer. I have to disagree about piracy being a matter of circumstance than personal choice.

Just like today, there are many honest ways to make a living and those that lie, cheat, steal, rape and murder in today's world have alternatives, they ARE making a personal choice. Being a bad guy is a choice, fer sure.

In the old days boats and ships were crucial to commerce, and there were many ways to make a living with a boat- fishing, hauling cargo, carrying passengers, etc, as well as on land you have the choice to leave an inhospitable area to find opportunities to farm, hunt, build, trade, etc. elsewhere. The bad guys who chose piracy were not chosing all the other possibilities available to them, they made a choice to be bad guys.

The Vikings were folks from the northern European countries that were largely barren and hard to farm or make a living, but rather than move and resettle they resorted to raiding and pillaging. That was their choice and they were pirates as well, so the cool association that some folks have about vikings is similar to my issue with pirates- these same folks would not think the Nazis were cool, so why would they think vikings were cool (except for pop culture)?

Originally Posted by Jammer

There were many flags used with variations. This etsy listing has some examples that, while cleaned up and presented more artistically, are representative.

https://www.etsy.com/sg-en/listing/7...lags-3x5-jolly

A google search on "pirate flag historic" will turn up many designs including some on Wikimedia Commons.


For sailors during the golden age of sail, piracy was more a matter of circumstance than personal choice; few if any sailors had the luxury of selecting whether to join a navy, a merchant vessel, or a pirate vessel. As you point out there was some overlap and possession of letters of marque did not change the inherently violent nature of these conflicts. And it would be a stretch to say that on the whole sailors in one or another navy led more moral and uplifting lives than pirates of the era.

See the book "Pirates: A New History, from Vikings to Somali Raiders" by Peter Lehr for a thorough treatment of the subject.

Another fact to consider is that sailors of the era -- whether on a vessel serving naval, merchant, or piratical ends -- were not materially more prone to violence and abuse of power than their land-bound peers pursing the life of a soldier, merchant, or bandit. Whether men and women of today choose to pursue lives of greater forbearance, mercy, and self-restraint or are merely more effectively held in check by the strictures of society and law is a more difficult question to answer.


Sure, the meaning of symbols changes over time. After all, the swastika was widely interpreted as a symbol of good luck and prosperity prior to it being co-opted by the Wehrmacht in the 1930s. Symbols also mean different things to different people, so it pays to be careful. In my own life I am cautious in displaying symbols that could be misunderstood as allegiance to ideas or people who I do not actually support.

I find the display of the pirate flag to be in poor taste outside of contexts of fantasy and history.

[SV__Grace]

Drinking boater is not a statement I'd like to make.

One of our favorite YouTube genres is boating fails, some are funny and some are downright scary if we were around those guys. I don't know but I'm convinced most are drunk and a few are newbies, negligence (inattention) and mechanical failures.

Originally Posted by SailRN

How about this:


Attachment 245054

[Simi 60]

I've never understood peoples "want" to have flags.
A bit like blue underwater lights.

I can always find 100 things more important to spend money on.
Flags would be at the very bottom of the list.

Courtesy flag and quarantine flag would be it.

[captmikem]

Here, this should keep the "Woke Folks" away.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by dadster3

I'm toying with the idea of flying a UN flag. I just think the world has become too small, too interconnected and faces too many problems that need to be addressed on a planetary scale. Humans have evolved from the paleolithic bands of hunter-gathers, through the neolithic stage of settled villages, through the rise of the city state during the classical period, and now the modern nation state. I don't think we can afford to continue much longer with the parochial nationalism of the modern era if we are to inhabit a livable planet. We will either find the creativity to evolve or risk perishing as a species. Perhaps we will need some interim step of regional organizations before we can move to a planetary social organization, which is probably some centuries hence even if we manage to survive the current Anthropocene.

Pure BS politically, a world order sounds reminiscent of the guy with the mustache.
Try flying that flag and head up the East River. Hug the Manhattan side and see how that is received