% legal holding tank dumping?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

. . . Any questions?

Sure -- do you see a single actual cruising boat in any of those photos? No. Those are not the waters we are talking about.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Yeah, they do.







Any questions?

Not sure what your point is...the bulk of the boats in the pictures are small cruising boats. The rest largely don't have heads anyway, so are not impacted by the rules under discussion.

But I've allowed for the pedantics by accepting we change the term from cruising boats to small pleasure craft.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sure -- do you see a single actual cruising boat in any of those photos? No. Those are not the waters we are talking about.

I suspect he is trying to take the snobbish attitude that weekend small boat cruisers as not being worthy of being called cruisers.

As far as the locations, those all appear to be densely packed enclosed areas close to shore...so unrelated to the discussion of dumping out in open water (yes, "open water" needs to be defined if used in a law but your cable designation works to cover that...though I might give it as feet/meters simply because many have no idea what a cable is.).

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I suspect he is trying to take the snobbish attitude that weekend small boat cruisers as not being worthy of being called cruisers.

As far as the locations, those all appear to be densely packed enclosed areas close to shore...so unrelated to the discussion of dumping out in open water (yes, "open water" needs to be defined if used in a law but your cable designation works to cover that...though I might give it as feet/meters simply because many have no idea what a cable is.).

It's not necessarily down to the boats themselves, but there's a pretty big difference in usage patterns, time spent on board, amount of head usage, etc. between the typical weekend boater that goes out for a few hours and back to the dock vs those who travel and spent large chunks of time on the boat.

[Mike OReilly]

So I guess we agree that, based on the images posted by LE, it would be inappropriate to discharge in this location at this time.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

It's not necessarily down to the boats themselves, but there's a pretty big difference in usage patterns, time spent on board, amount of head usage, etc. between the typical weekend boater that goes out for a few hours and back to the dock vs those who travel and spent large chunks of time on the boat.

Sure but no real impact on where they dispose of sewage that goes into the head.

Everyone has agreed that in dense enclosed areas, it's not appropriate...so was he implying it was OK to dump there because they don't meet his standard of what qualifies as a cruising boat? I don't understand what his point was.

PS: If the bottom picture is where I think it is, I've hung out there more than once and it's not common to see people hanging out in the water for hours at a time dragging a cooler around behind them...most don't get out of the water to use the head.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I suspect he is trying to take the snobbish attitude that weekend small boat cruisers as not being worthy of being called cruisers.

As far as the locations, those all appear to be densely packed enclosed areas close to shore...so unrelated to the discussion of dumping out in open water (yes, "open water" needs to be defined if used in a law but your cable designation works to cover that...though I might give it as feet/meters simply because many have no idea what a cable is.).

For goodness sake - would you please state your position instead of just badgering people and and making ad hominem attacks? See post #247 for a nice example - he started a productive to and fro, even if I don't agree with him.

Cable: (nautical) A unit of length equal to one tenth of a nautical mile.
(don't feel bad, I didn't know it either).

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sure -- do you see a single actual cruising boat in any of those photos? No.

Exactly. Bingo. There are other recreational boats to consider besides cruisers! Or do cruisers deserve their own speshul laws? printed on lambskin, I imagine...

Those are not the waters we are talking about.

Well, yes they are. We'd like to prevent this sort of boat from discharging here, or wherever else they (and/or we) congregate, and there about 8 or 9 of these for every CF-grade "cruiser".

But not in vahalla's world, I guess.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I suspect he is trying to take the snobbish attitude that weekend small boat cruisers as not being worthy of being called cruisers.

Har har. I'm taking the practical attitude that you have not been taking this sort of boating into consideration when whining about how the current laws annoy you.

DH - Do you think any of the pictured boaters think in terms of "cables"? I'd have to look it up...

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

So I guess we agree that, based on the images posted by LE, it would be inappropriate to discharge in this location at this time.

You think? It may depend on the amount of booze consumed.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cadence

You think? It may depend on the amount of booze consumed.

True ... it might be impossible not to.

But of course, as we know, urine is mostly water, and almost always completely sterile. So bring on the beers .

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

True ... it might be impossible not to.

But of course, as we know, urine is mostly water, and almost always completely sterile. So bring on the beers .

Yep, but who wants to swim in a urinal.
This whole thing has become Ludacris.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Yep, but who wants to swim in a urinal.
This whole thing has become Ludacris.

How much pee is in our swimming pools? New urine test reveals the truth

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Exactly. Bingo. There are other recreational boats to consider besides cruisers! Or do cruisers deserve their own speshul laws? printed on lambskin, I imagine...

Well, yes they are. We'd like to prevent this sort of boat from discharging here, or wherever else they (and/or we) congregate, and there about 8 or 9 of these for every CF-grade "cruiser".

. . .

Har har. I'm taking the practical attitude that you have not been taking this sort of boating into consideration when whining about how the current laws annoy you.. . .

I really don't understand what we are arguing about. Not one person in this thread advocated allowing boats to discharge in the middle of crowded anchorages. No special rules required. Reasonable rules such as the ones suggested would work for all these situations.


One sensible special rule, however, would differentiate between lakes and the ocean. Oh, and I think we have those already. Mike mentioned flow -- a good point. Shallow fresh water lakes are a lot easier to pollute than the ocean with strong tidal flows, and require a different approach.


This is the rationale behind the UK's liberal policy about discharge -- UK waters are strongly tidal, and studies show that recreational boat discharges are meaningless in such waters. There are local rules against discharging inside harbours or in the immediate vicinity of beaches or shellfish beds, but otherwise you can discharge where you like.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by lestersails

For goodness sake - would you please state your position instead of just badgering people and and making ad hominem attacks? See post #247 for a nice example - he started a productive to and fro, even if I don't agree with him.

Cable: (nautical) A unit of length equal to one tenth of a nautical mile.
(don't feel bad, I didn't know it either).

I apologize. I should not have followed his approach of ad hominem responses.

But I'm still waiting for an explanation of what the pictures were supposed to demonstrate. So far everyone has agreed that in densely used areas, in particular where people are in the water, discharge is a problem.

How about adding a simple addition to Dockheads rule that you can't discharge within 5 cables of where people are in direct contact with the water. That would pretty well address the pictures and would also address marinas and public beaches.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I really don't understand what we are arguing about. Not one person in this thread advocated allowing boats to discharge in the middle of crowded anchorages.

There hasn't been much of a counter-proposal, except for "ok, not near shore", and even that's annoying to the ElectroSan crowd.

Problem with this? Crafting an understandable and enforceable law.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

So far everyone has agreed that in densely used areas, in particular where people are in the water, discharge is a problem.

So, as I asked before, propose an enforceable law. You've suggested half a nautical mile. Problem? Enforcement, and the difference in actual behaviours, between the existing and your laws.

I realize that in the more libertarian arm of the CF fleet, no such law would ever be necessary, but spare a thought for the thoughtless rabble.

(we've already had an ex USCG member tell you the specifics of the task of enforcement, so yeah, I'm also wondering why you keep dragging this out)