Leaving a boat in a marina overseas. How safe is it?

[Hugo B]

Hi

My plans are slowly taking shape. Most likely early next year I will go to Europe and buy a boat (small monohull yacht about 28 ft). I can sail it for over a month, but then I have to go back to Australia and work for another year. The year of work allow me to save up and prepare the boat properly for livaboard. After that last year of work, things are wide open and I will have much more time to sail.

For that last year of work I am thinking of leaving it on the hard, most likely somewhere in Brittany in France, I am thinking in Brest where there is a marina with hard stands.

The question is: how safe is that? Can accidents happen? Can it get stolen? And what do you do for overwintering? Do you just disconnect the batteries, put anti-freeze in the engine and stow the sails below? Is is useful to put a canopy over the whole boat? Or is there even more to it? Not much information forthcoming from the French marinas I am afraid.

Any recommendations on best places to overwinter a boat in Europe and how to prepare it will be most welcome. I am looking at the Brittany coast as my best option, because I am most likely buying the boat in the UK which is not too far away (but I do not want to keep it the UK). However, further south in France (Atlantic side) or even northern Spain or Portugal are also possibilities. Safety is my primary concern, cost is also important but definitely secondary.

Thanks very much

Hugo

[Simi 60]

Depends

[skipperpete]

My boat lives on the dry stand at Port Napoleon marina at the mouth of the Rhône ( Mediterranean)and it seems to be very safe as far as theft is concerned with extensive online CCTV coverage but the weather is of some concern. We get a wind called the Mistral that comes from the north and roars down the Rhône valley with great force so no awnings or covers normally and sails stowed off the spars. Last year we had 150 klm/hr for a while and that really rattled the halyards and destroyed part of the floating marina. I do a full cold storage winter layup but we rarely get snow, just subzero temps so I empty the entire domestic water system and drain the engine coolant just to be on the safe side. The batteries are connected to solar panels so they look after themselves. I also fill my fuel tanks to the max because condensation is a major problem. Our marina is very good and relatively inexpensive. I go to France every 2 or 3 months for 2 or 3 months on a constant basis but not always to the boat, sometimes just to Paris.

[CatNewBee]

Europe is safe, 28ft boats, especially on the hard will not be stolen, nor be plundered. There are many staying there for years. It is expensive so, and you as a non EU citizen and foreign flagged have to remind the 18 month allowance for the boat, otherwise VAT and EU import taxes may hit you. It also has to be insured all the time. Weather wise marinas in the Med may be better sheltered than on the Atlantic coast.

[Franziska]

You could ask at Loire Nautique Services.
It's situated in Cordemais close to the river Loire and is a dry marina.

The next big city, Nantes, can be easily reached by public transport and has an international airport too.

www.port-a-sec.fr

Lady Rover, my 36ft cat, has been stored there in the off time for a number of seasons and Bernards prices are very reasonable.

I recommend them, because in 2016 I also had a hard time finding a reasonably priced storage along the coast.

If you enquire say hi from Franziska.

Good luck, hope you find a way to deal with VAT and that sort of things,

Fran

[SaltyMetals]

Hugo, you have already had some good advice and i would agree as far as security is concerned but one aspect is most important. VAT.

You will have an 18 month limit in the EU unless you are fully EU VAT compliant. While nobody yet knows for sure what will happen with VAT for UK boats it looks like that even if the boat is UK registered and UK VAT paid (and at the moment can voyage or stay freely anywhere within the EU, what matters is after Brexit. Currently the advice is that a UK VAT paid boat that is located in the UK at the time of Brexit will no longer be able to freely circulate within the EU AFTER brexit unless you pay VAT ALL OVER AGAIN! Sounds crazy but that is how the rules are applied since the UK will then be treated as any other non-EU country. If you do not intend to stay longer than 18 mths in the EU it shld not be a problem. Alternatively you can hop across to N Africa or into Montenegro and re-set yr 18 month clock to be able to go back into the EU.

If you buy a 28 ft in the UK, the boat remains in UK at Brexit time then you will have problems if you wish to trade up to a larger boat since it will no longer have free ciculation rights with the rest of the EU. You may not get the best re-sale price.

If you buy a boat in the UK and intend to be able to use it extensively within the EU, or even live-aboard i would strongly recommend that you make sure it is located in the EU at the time of Brexit. This move will protect its EU VAT status. Get a delivery crew to take it across the Channel to France if necessary before the official Brexit date. While nothing has yet been clarified as far as i know, a UK registered boat, UK VAT paid before Brexit that was in some other EU country at the time of Brexit might (this is a big "MIGHT") be able to come back into the UK without having UK VAT problems. This is how i see the logic but the rules might dictate otherwise.

But, ?? 28 feet??: Does that really give you enough space to live-aboard? Another tip would be not to skimp on the quality and spec of yr anchor & chain so that you can safely anchor in a bay (free?) rather than pay costly marina fees. In some places there is a growing problem (pardon the pun) of weed so make sure you have a new generation anchor like Spade or similar which is possibly a bit better at digging through
weed. You also need space in the boat for some sort of heating for the winter, even if you intend to stay in the Med. While solar can keep yr batteries up to snuff how are you going to have hot water if you are at anchor for very long? I would change all lights to LED but you probably have already got some of this worked out.
Best of luck.
Andrew
"Genial Bee"

PS: I bought my boat second hand (2004) 4 years ago in Weymouth, England. UK registered on Part 1 Registration, not SSR. Did all sorts of things to her, updates, etc and then sailed her in 2016 to the Adriatic where she is currently located. No security problems, no thefts, excellent marina.

[svchinamoon]

For the past 4 years we have kept our boat in Port d’Arzal Camoel marina where it spends about half the year on the hard when we are not sailing. The marina is on the Villaine River about an hour up river from the ocean. I can highly recommend it as being safe, secure and very professionally run. If you want a few more details you can PM me.

[valhalla360]

It's about the same as keeping a boat an hours drive away...if you aren't there and it's a shady marina...who knows.

Reality used 28' monohull isn't a prime target unless you have lots of valuable resaleable stuff that your average 28' monohull doesn't normally have.

VAT is an issue but not really bad:
- Most local boats will already be VAT paid (make sure to get it in writing including documentation proving it was paid). If not VAT paid, make sure to discount the sales price because VAT runs north of 20%.
- You get 18months to start.
- If you will be gone, you can have the boat sealed and extend the time.
- Otherwise you just have to get the boat out of the schengen area for a day to reset the 18 month clock.

[dcarratt]

I have cruised around Europe for the last 5 years with no permanent home port, flying to and from the UK as necessary. In general, it's safe to leave your boat if you don't leave outboards and other equipment on deck.
To leave the boat for 12 months, you need to disconnect batteries (or leave them on float charge), take sails off, mouse out halyards and other control lines, drain calorifiers and other plumbing & winterise the engine. You can also leave the boat with a dehumidifier on board, running from shorepower, to keep the upholstery & mattresses dry. You could consider shrinkwrapping the topsides and/or treat the decks with Boracol to keep the mould & algae away.

Ideally, you need someone to check the boat once a month. They should check the dehumidifier & run the nav/deck lights for a few hours to drive the condensation out of the light fittings.

La Roche Bernard, near Camoël on the Vilaine is also a popular place to overwinter for UK boats. The other places to consider are St Malo, Roscoff, Lorient. Brittany is generally quite wet as a place to leave a boat for an extended period. Lagos in Portugal has a dryer climate and has fantastic yacht maintenance facilities. It's ideally placed if you are planning to go into the Med. Might be hard to get there in only a month from the UK.

The main considerations in choosing a location are 1) proximity of airports with useful connections and 2) availability of local trades to do repair work.

[DEAN2140]

Take a look the current issue (Nov/Dec) of Cruising World which has a good piece on this subject and some of the pitfalls you should avoid.

[sailing_gal]

In Spain, if you leave a foreign (non-VAT) boat on the hard you can register with the Port Captain and have the time spent on the hard NOT count toward the 18 month limit. I suspect it is the same throughout Europe.

[geoff3nebel]

England is a good bet when it comes to buying a boat - the pound sterling is weak and will weaken further when the UK leaves the EU. Boat bits - chandlery - are cheaper by a large margin in the UK than other EU countries.
But... there is confusion concerning VAT (sales tax) liability if a UK registered and VAT paid boat is in the UK after the UK leaves the EU - and therefore not in free circulation within the EU - will it be liable to VAT (20% minimum) if it is to sail in EU waters for longer than a prescribed time limit? I don’t know, others might. It’s a can of worms. The UK RYA should be up to date on legislation; try asking them.
Storage in France is cheaper than the UK.
I use a boatyard 2km inland up the Caen Canal from the sea lock at Ouistreham. Hauled out and stored on a cradle. Sheltered from the wind. High fences and two large German shepherds loose at night.
Buy your boat in the UK, fit it out there, then store in France

[Fore and Aft]

Hugo B I am not sure if you are going forward or backwards buying a yacht overseas? Have you considered the cost of storage, airfares and insurance? That’s a lot of expense for only a months sailing. Why not buy a yacht here in Australia then sail her to the Mediterranean? That why you can fit her out and get some sailing in.
There is a nice Yamaha 30 with new Diesel engine and rigging for sale in Bundaberg for $25,000. I surveyed her last year and she is pretty tidy.
Cheers

[Franziska]

Why not wait a year? It's hard, I know, but...
Or is it a friends boat?

[psp2psp2]

Hugo!

Reading between the lines of your question I sense you live in Australia but are planning to buy a boat and sail in Europe.

If this is correct, I would first of all suggest not committing yourself to this idea of buying in the UK. That is, or course, unless you want to do some extensive sailing in and around the UK before setting off for warmer climes.

Buying a boat in France, Spain or some other place in the Med might suit your plans better. Also, you might find a boat that meets your requirements that is already safely moored or laid up in a nice marina / boatyard. (Last year I sold my Wauquiez 43 to a couple from Australia including the remainder of a contract for winter storage at a really good boatyard in Greece.)

Secondly, you ask about safety. I believe your main question should be, "How expensive is it?" followed by, "What about the VAT?"! SAFETY is part of the same equation as RISK, and risk is something you insure against.

The topic of European VAT is too long and complex for an answer here, but you'll be doing yourself a favour if you buy a boat that's already in the EU, flagged in the EU and VAT-paid. (Some people might tell you, 'You can't flag an EU vessel without being citizen / resident in Europe.' Don't pay attention - I've done it three times without breaking any laws or making a false declaration.

How much will storage cost? There's something for every pocket. I've over-wintered in European ports for 6 seasons, and always looked for a good deal. I left a yacht in the water in France, Sardina and southern Italy, on dry land at a different location in Sardinia (twice), and a Greek island. I've left a yacht for extended periods unattended in Gibraltar, southern Spain, northern Italy, various Greek islands, Cyprus and Turkey. The most damage I suffered was a lost or deflated fender and a bird's nest under the radar mount. No weather damage and nothing stolen. I made a couple of mistakes choosing marinas which were great value for money but poorly served by airports or public transport. You can't have it all.

As regards prepping the boat to be left for the winter, here's a list of the top ten things we always do

• Fuel tanks FULL (to discourage algae growth)
  Fresh water tanks empty
  Batteries charged then disconnected (unless you have an arrangement to leave it connected to shore power with someone who will switch ON once a week for a couple of hours)
  Remove as much of your running rigging as possible and store below.
  Holding tank empty
  Sails washed free of salt, thoroughly dried, folded and stored
  Absolutely no food (except canned) left on board. This includes spices.
  Use cling foil on the inside of hatched and port lights to prevent the rubber gaskets from sticking and also helps keep out fine dust.
  If leaving in the water - consider carefully the arrangement of lines and fenders, invest in mooring springs.
  Run the outboard in fresh water, drain the last drop of fuel and store below decks.

And lastly, a few places you might want to check as possibilities for winter layover

Spain - Almerimar. Good prices, convenient airport. Lots of maintenance services.

France - Pin Rolland. In or out of water, moderate prices. Rail connections from Toulon

Sardinia - Olbia. Good price for a contract between Sept - May. Walking distance from airport.

Sardinia - Arbatax. Cantieri Mattana. (Our favourite) Very keen prices for boatyard storage. Wide range of repair services.

Italy - Vibo. Stella del sud Marina. (Calabria). In the water. Full-service marina under excellent management. Good winter prices. 30 min from Lamezia Terme airport plus rail connections to Rome etc.

Greece - Kalamata. In or our of the water. Good place to get work done but it's a €200 taxi ride from Athens airport. Book early; it fills up!

Greece - Dimsteff Marine Services on Evvia. On land storage. €100 approx cab ride from Athens airport

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