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Old 05-11-2017, 16:50   #31
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Re: Help me sort this out?

I'd like to remphasize at this point, that the OP's time as an active sailor is limited. A major refit like this can cost way too much: time and effort, let alone the costs of supplies, and yard time. I think this is more about healthy time remaining to him than it is about money. But of course, that's a personal take on the situation. And his is a personal choice to make.

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Old 05-11-2017, 20:29   #32
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Re: Help me sort this out?

There is boating and there is working on a boat. If you’ve the skills (yourself) and the inclination to accomplish this rebuild, have at it. Cost? It will be what you make it. I have done what you contemplate four times. It is my joy but so is sailing great distances. You’re looking at a $100,000 boat if you do it on the cheap and depending on the time you have to focus on this project.

I had a boat for twenty years whose engine, a 371 GMC was mounted just abaft the main mast. It is, in my opinion, the best place for it. This boat, the Rough and Ready, had a watertight engineroom accessed only from on deck.

I encourage you to look farther afield. There are a great many potentially great boats available to rehab in the Caribbean just now.

I applaud your thinking of taking the boat to a cheaper location to build out but it may be better to go to an area where cheap labor and boats are in abundance and eventually sail to where boats are in higher demand.
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Old 05-11-2017, 22:05   #33
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Re: Help me sort this out?

Obviously you are head over heels and blinded by love. You can spend the next large chunk of your remaining sailing life and more than a hundred thousand bucks before you are able to use this boat, Or you can pick up a 45 foot center cockpit cruiser with engine room also centrally located and workbench, etc for about the same cash and have it ready to go in a year.

But if you love the project more than the cruising (I do understand), go for it and you'll have the satisfaction you deserve at completion
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:28   #34
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Re: Help me sort this out?

You've had lots of fun daydreaming - now get real ...
ABSOLUTELY WALK AWAY !!!
Buy a "ready to go" cruising boat, get her ready to go, and GO CRUISING
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:01   #35
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Re: Help me sort this out?

Been a slave at the hospital for the last couple of days...so forgive my slow return.

Seriously, I am blinded by the love of what she was and could be again. I am known on this forum as an older guy...calm...honest...reasonable...but this boat really got under my skin. I turned to the forum because there is a huge knowledge base here. I was a racer 30 years ago. As I have aged I have become more cautious ....want to know what I am signing up before I jump in. I have never taken on a project like this. Thank you everyone for your advice. Every reply was painful and honest....and much needed.

I bought a 30 foot Sharpie that Steady Hand found when he was doing his cheap boats articles. I was smitten ...gob smacked...I am prone this way to a pretty visage. I am not joking about Penelope Cruz....smile.

I bought her for 5k. I said to myself...she needs some sprucing up. I could see some of the deck glassing was bubbling up. She was sitting on a trailer and I could see some of the glass on the chines as it turned from vertical to horizontal had come loose in some spots...."no problem, I can learn fiberglassing." Got her to the boatyard and they flipped her bottom side up and I began. No rot to be found. But the bottom was only fiber glassed on the turns, centerboard trunk, and motor well. The rest was paint and bottom paint. It was a mess. So, I sanded it down to bare plywood. I got a fellow there to help me glass the bottom and about 6 inches above the old water line. Fairing it all in took some effort but turned out beautifully. The big problem is that I bought the boat in late November and it rained from December until late April. Heaviest rainy season in over 50 years. I am blessed that way. If there are 10 lines open at the grocery store and I pick the shortest one...it will immediately stop because some grandma/grandpa is trying to find that nickle he saw last week.

I can't use a 4hp 2stroke in Lake Tahoe. So, I decided to repower with a 10hp 4 stroke. I paid almost 6k to redo the motor well and glass it. There is no way I could work in such a small space for all the cuts and angles presented. My wife gave me one of those looks men dread...not undeservingly...but "are you freaking out of your mind"....looks.

When the boat was built back in the mid to late 80's they used a product called Yellow Jacket for something to sheath the plywood. The threads are yellow and it has a very thin matrix of fiber. Couple of the tradesmen who have been around forever said they barely remember this product. I decided it had to go as there were areas that were bubbled and some areas where it was stuck well. No, Mr. Daddy Warbucks can't have that on his boat....no, sir.... I sanded and peeled and scrapped...and cussed for over a month. Now it is mid October and I know the rains are coming. I told my sweetie that I had to get the Sharpie resheathed in a hurry and I needed professional help. She gave me that all knowing look...you know the one? So, Kelly...the pro glasser and I over two weeks 3-4 hours a day glassed her up very nicely. That yard bill was only a 4500 dollars. Gee, i'm getting better...the amounts are getting smaller, right?

I haven't done the actual accounting yet how much I have sunk into her. I feel it is safe to say over 20k. I promise the forum I will break it all down one of these days when I can sit and pull out all the receipts.

So, now I am infected with this other boat...even when I still have to fair and paint my little Sharpie. I knew from what I had gone through that this racer conversion was just some of my pipe dreams bull shirts. Thank you for all of your honesty and sharing your experience. When my wife and I talked about it she asked what I thought it would cost. I told her easily 100k and 3 years of intense labor. I have less than 20 months before retiring. My hands hurt and feel arthritic and one shoulder gives me problems from time to time.

So, what I have learned is what you've all reaffirmed....find a boat that is ready to go...or easily modified. I probably only have another 10 years of sailing life so don't waste them ....there really is a sickness in my mind where I see damaged things...and I want to fix them. U guys and gals ....really gave me what I needed.
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:58   #36
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Re: Help me sort this out?

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Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
....there really is a sickness in my mind where I see damaged things...and I want to fix them...
I can fully identify with that feeling. I hate to see things not put to best use. However the world is filled with GRP boats that will live on forever, or at least long after their use-by date has expired. Some remain very, very beautiful in their old age. They call out to us and, for those who hear them, it takes great resolve for us to resist their Siren call.
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Old 06-11-2017, 13:47   #37
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Re: Help me sort this out?

Having done a lot of ocean racing around that time frame I can tell you that most of the (especially earlier) IOR boats are a pain to steer downhill in any kind of wind. Just look back at some of the crash pictures from the Big Boat series in SF around that time. If you can dig up the name of the you might be able to get some history, and even talk to some who raced on her.

The comment about choosing who (or what) you fall in love with is so true. From a logical point of view it probably makes no sense to do this, but people in love have always done a lot of crazy things. Just hope the love affair makes to to your first sail.
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Old 06-11-2017, 14:39   #38
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Re: Help me sort this out?

One of my problems over the years is I see relic or bare boat "as it COULD be". It took me years to push that aside.... and cost me years of sailing trying to make those boats "as they could be".
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Old 06-11-2017, 16:05   #39
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Re: Help me sort this out?

Well, alansmith,

I for one, think you made the right decision for this time of your life, and for your good lady, as well. It just might pain her a great deal to see you in way over your head with that Farr.

The rail meat issue mentioned early on in the beginning is also a real one. She wouldn't be a fast cruiser if you could only comfortably run her with one or two reefs in. The only solution I know of for tender is more ballast, preferably down low.

At any rate, that Farr is a young person's job, if she's to have a makeover.

Ann
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Old 10-11-2017, 14:58   #40
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Re: Help me sort this out?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
One of my problems over the years is I see relic or bare boat "as it COULD be". It took me years to push that aside.... and cost me years of sailing trying to make those boats "as they could be".
LOL! As much as I have spent on boats over the years, I could have paid of the mortgage (when I owned a home) and probably could have paid for a 2nd home!
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Old 10-11-2017, 15:33   #41
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Re: Help me sort this out?

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Here is the situation:

There is a boat that is rumored to be Bruce Farr's boat that is approximately 44 foot. it's interior is pretty much stripped except part of the galley is still there. One of the interesting things about this boat is the engine sits near the mast. It is a cutter rig. The boat is rumored to have won the Trans Pac in its class back in the late 70's or early 80's. It has a partially open stern with a big destroyer wheel. Massive deck hatches that are heavy duty. The gear on this boat is high level racing gear ...but maybe 10 years old when it was decommissioned as a racer. I saw this boat out of the water as she was having her bottom redone. Fin with deep keel.

There is so much that could be done with this fine boat. She is solid build and quite lovely. Her old teak decks need to go bye bye. She has no interior what so ever. She can be had pretty cheaply....maybe mid 20k

What I would like to do is to turn her into a good performance cruiser if I decided to swallow the insanity pill/ divorce pill....(no my wife likes the boat also and sees her potential)

1. She currently has a zillion racing sails. All hanked on....I would want a roller furling and even possibly a furling main. Just me and my sweetie...and I am in mid 60's and my wife is skinny Minnie.

So, question one, mates....how to go about getting my mind around what it will cost to get the rigging changed? Take pictures of the boat and go to a rigger and figure out what estimates they can come up with? Go to a sail loft? Can they take racing sails and recut them/alter them to lower performance sizes and more modest expectations?

2. Since the motor is at least 15-20 foot in front of the companionway how practical is it to build a good box around it for insulation and sound?

I love the balance of this boat. You can swing the destroyer wheel 6 inches port/starboard and watch the bow move accordingly. The engine is exactly where all motors should be if you like weight out of the ends. The motor is a Westerbeake (spelling) It is absolutely out in the open and would be the sweetest place to work on filters, belts, etc....observe issues building.

3. My wife and I like our pleasures and since this boat is a blank open page with almost nothing in it.....There is a v berth up in the bow. A very tiny bathroom...no shower. The main area has two benches. The boat is quite beamy. Behind the companion way are two large areas port and starboard that could be used for berths and storage.

I can't get my mind around what the costs would be to do the plumbing/electrical/carpentry/ and finish work. I have rebuilt three homes in the last 15 years from top to bottom. I am just now finishing up on a complete restoration of a 30 foot Sharpie. I have all the tools and none of the talent. He he....

Would it not be smart to pack the boat with all the stuff and sail it to southeast asia or Rio Dulce and let the talented workers do all the interior with me? I have serious delusions and this boat is making me nutts.

Okay...flame suit on....flame away....try to take a deep breath and be nice. I cry easily. I feel about this boat the same as I did about Penelope Cruz when I first saw her in Jamon Jamon.... I also think Javier Bartem is very insecure. I know he is intercepting all my letters to Penelope. Okay...so that is nutts....well, that is what this boat does to me.
well Allan,, I am not going to go through 3 pages of stuff on stuff ( current americanisim ) and I am sure many ( many many ) CF dignitaries have sorted out every possible cosmic option open to you and your your issues for you ,, so all I can add is congratulations that you have a " skinny miney " on board with you to help you throo the daily grind,,, enjoy matey ..
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:57   #42
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Re: Help me sort this out?

Best advice ever given to a prospective boat buyer.

"Buy a boat that's already equipped to do what you want to do with it."

I wish I had followed it.
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Old 12-11-2017, 09:36   #43
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Re: Help me sort this out?

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..."Buy a boat that's already equipped to do what you want to do with it."
I wish I had followed [that advice].
But the Etap looks to be a real honey - are you dissatisfied with it?
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Old 12-11-2017, 09:48   #44
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Re: Help me sort this out?

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But the Etap looks to be a real honey - are you dissatisfied with it?
Not at all. It's a great boat, extremely well built. There are aspects of it (the "insulation", for example that do a remarkable job of controlling temperature and humidity) that would be difficult to replicate on a boat from any other manufacturer. I intend to keep it as long as it (or I) am able.

...but prior to my getting it was used as a European offshore cruiser. It has some things I don't really need (ie, a big spinnaker, pole, storm jib) and other things I'd like (built in AC) it doesn't have. Changing what needs to be changed to have it serve as a coastal liveaboard in North America is taking time (not to mention $).

Even so, that's been a tiny fraction of what it would take to tackle a project like the OP proposes. I would echo the sentiments others have shared - get something that's ready to do what you want to do.
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Old 12-11-2017, 10:07   #45
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Re: Help me sort this out?

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Best advice ever given to a prospective boat buyer.

"Buy a boat that's already equipped to do what you want to do with it."

I wish I had followed it.
An inexperienced buyer might be seeking something not completely logical, and will be limiting their scope of the market. I think few if any boats are perfect leading to the expectation of 'gold at the end of the rainbow' on the one hand, and the closed miasma like theory on less 'perfect' vessels.

Cost out the imperfections to hold to an established standard, satisfy yourself you accomplished value in a cost driven paradigm.
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