Dock line management when leaving dock

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Noahr

How does that system work when it is a floating dock, no pilings, with cleats on the dock? Do you lasso the cleat or jump onto the dock?

The former in my case. It's pretty easy to throw a rope around a cleat if you use the right technique,

Here's the first video I found showing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yThp0GbBl4

Once you've got the centre line on a cleat, you can get the boat snugged up against the dock and STEP onto it taking a bow or stern line with you.
(I've been know to express my displeasure quite vocally when I see anyone JUMP onto a dock )

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Noahr

How does that system work when it is a floating dock, no pilings, with cleats on the dock? Do you lasso the cleat or jump onto the dock?

Generally you lasso a cleat or get shoreside help, at least with a heavier vessel (one heavy enough to cause injury if someone is caught in the water between the vessel and the dock).


If shoreside help is unavailable but you have crew, you can often drop crew off at a fuel dock or other location where you can just drift against the dock with no heroics, given the prevailing wind and current.



"Lassoing" a cleat can be accomplished by dropping an eye (or a loop that comes back to the boat) over a cleat with a boathook, or by actually throwing an eye or a loop.


Part of docking is having a plan and being prepared to give up and bail out and make another run at it.


Part of docking is realizing that some wind, wave, and current conditions will not allow safe docking -- then identifying those and being prepared to move on to "Plan B." Depending on the situation this could involve docking at another slip or a fuel/visitor dock, or anchoring, or going to another marina.

[rwidman]

We take out docklines with us. They are kept on the boat and then retied when we return. We find it difficult to maneuver the boat to get it to where the lines will go over the cleats if we leave them on the dock.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by rwidman

We take out docklines with us. They are kept on the boat and then retied when we return. We find it difficult to maneuver the boat to get it to where the lines will go over the cleats if we leave them on the dock.

That last bit is a good point. Depending on your slip layout, it may or may not be easy to solve that problem. In our case, the last line on is tied at the boat end, so that gets tightened up, taking up the slack in the crossed stern lines and leaving one other spring line slightly slack. If that line isn't put on last, you won't get the loops over the cleats for some of the others.

[AuChante]

We went out last weekend and got much better. wind was only 5kt so it was a good day to to just practice all the stuff... tacks, jybes, escaping irons, marina maneuvering, etc. Our docking system has come a lonnggg way. The main thing is we slowed way down. We casually hung all the lines on the dock/pile and were left with only one line on bow and stern. Tried pinning the boat on the dock by idling in gear with the stern line taught which worked wonderfully. Coming back in is just reverse. With no wind, we just used hooks to grab the bow and stern line and did everything in reverse.


I'd say that a sailboat is much easier to maneuver in a marina than a power boat since it pivots so sharply about the keel. Dealing with prop walk and zero rudder authority in reverse takes a good deal of practice tho.

[TrentePieds]

All this discussion came about because AuChante was worried about catching his lines in his prop. Well, aren't we all :-)?

So, we've all developed techniques for preventing just that. Just what those techniques consist of must necessarily differ from boat to boat and from location to location.

AuChante's boat - like mine - is only a baby as boats go, but still at 5 tons displacement heavy enuff to do damage to herself and to other things, including people, if you haven't got 'er under absolute control when in tight quarters.

Now, in my life, slipping and coming alongside is easy because bull rails are ubiquitous around here.

All that's required to depart is the standard springing off evolution. Using that method, you have all kinds of time to bring your dock lines aboard carefully and unhurriedly, so they will not fall in the water. To clear the springline just prior to slipping, just set the tranny to neutral thereby stopping the prop turning. Hauling in the spring line is a piecacake because the boat, even untethered, with not move during the few seconds it takes to do it. With the spring line cleared and secured engage the tranny and complete the departure evolution.

To come alongside all that's required is that you stop 'er, lay 'er dead in the water, parallel to the pontoon/dock/etc. where you are going to make 'er fast, with fenders on her landward side and six inches of air twixt the midships fender and the side of the pontoon/float/etc.

In my case, in both cases, since my freeboard at the gates, just aft of the bridge deck, is about 2 feet (as is AuChante's), and the top of a bullrail is usually 8" above the surface of the pontoon which has some freeboard, the bullrail is a convenient step for boarding and disembarking.

Having laid TP dead where I want 'er, engine idling and tranny in neutral, I step off, backwards - always backwards and holding on to the conveniently placed winch on the corner of the house top -, while taking advantage of the bull rail as a step. I belay a previously readied forrard-after springline on the bull rail, step back aboard, lay the helm away from the pontoon and engage forward. Bob's now my uncle. I now have all sorts of time to do a seamanlike job of setting all other lines while the propeller thrust against the springline in combination with the prop water hitting the rudder holds her just where I want her. That done, I bring the working springline aboard and stow it. Its purpose is to be a tool for controlling the boat when coming and going and as such is not part of the dock-line outfit.

Being able to lay a boat dead in her intended berth having allowed for drift and set is an essential skill that every skipper must strive to perfect.

Someone mentioned not liking flemished lines because they get wet and gather dirt. Well, yes, of course they do. It's a poor boat that can't take a little water on deck, and as for the dirt, even a modicum of normal ship's husbandry takes care of that.

Lines that it is handy for some reason to have to hand on deck, rather than have them stowed in their appointed places below decks, I coil, if they are long enough to do that, and hang on pulpit/pushpit/lifelines using a "lamb's ear". Else I bring them below.

À la prochaine :-)!

TrentePieds

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by AuChante

We went out last weekend and got much better. wind was only 5kt so it was a good day to to just practice all the stuff... tacks, jybes, escaping irons, marina maneuvering, etc. Our docking system has come a lonnggg way. The main thing is we slowed way down. We casually hung all the lines on the dock/pile and were left with only one line on bow and stern. Tried pinning the boat on the dock by idling in gear with the stern line taught which worked wonderfully. Coming back in is just reverse. With no wind, we just used hooks to grab the bow and stern line and did everything in reverse.


I'd say that a sailboat is much easier to maneuver in a marina than a power boat since it pivots so sharply about the keel. Dealing with prop walk and zero rudder authority in reverse takes a good deal of practice tho.

Yeah you do have to allow for backing to port (or starboard) tendencies but that can also be USED to good effect. Also, once you have sternway, if you shift to neutral you do get some steerage, commensurate with your actual speed through the water. The prop is no longer sternthrustering you when it isn't being turned but the rudder is just as effective as it is when sailing ahead at the same slow speed. Especially with smaller boats, I like to back in just a little hot with the slip a bit to port, and when she's lined up, take her out of gear, and correct with rudder alone, or rudder and little blips of engine ahead, then stop her sternway with slow ahead. The trick is to not take off all sternway too early, and lose that small amount of steerage. If you have to shift into Astern again, you are right back to fighting side force when it is strongest. (I do hate that term "prop walk" LOL!)

But yeah, once you can actually grab ahold of something and pull the boat where you want it, you are in like Flynn. Also, fending off a piling or pushing ahead or astern with your boathooks (always have two of them!) is very useful. With boats under about 10 tons it is very easy to muscle them around and actually even much bigger boats can be muscled if there isn't a lot of wind or current. Just takes longer to get them moving and then to get them stopped.

[wpatch]

So we have a system we are perfecting.

1) Lines go with the boat. I look at every undock as an adventure and I may not go back to my dock. I've never been unhappy having my lines on board.

2) We 4 springs fwd and aft port and starboard, and 4 dock lines to match (Different colors to make it easy.

3) When undocking we single up, then double back the remaining lines. (Usually 1 or 2 fwd and 1 aft).

4) Hand singnal and out we go. Once out we clove hitch the lines on our life lines if a short trip, then apply a yellow velcro wrap so we can easily see they are secured.

Finally on docking we have a "new" procedure. Admrial drops a custom line on the cleat on the way in which grabs, and stops us. We then use heave lines to catch either pylon and cleat to secure us to opposite side, off we go and set all our lines.

We probably overdue our dock lines, but it looks pretty and balanced, and is actually quite easy.

I think once I get more comfortable our stop line could be used to single down to and solo undock.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

To come alongside all that's required is that you stop 'er, lay 'er dead in the water, parallel to the pontoon/dock/etc. where you are going to make 'er fast, with fenders on her landward side and six inches of air twixt the midships fender and the side of the pontoon/float/etc.
...
Being able to lay a boat dead in her intended berth having allowed for drift and set is an essential skill that every skipper must strive to perfect.

...
Having laid TP dead where I want 'er, engine idling and tranny in neutral, I step off, backwards -

How do you keep her 6" off the dock while stepping off backwards when you have 15+ knots blowing you away from your finger?


My rule is that no one steps off until there is a secured line ashore.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Lines that it is handy for some reason to have to hand on deck, rather than have them stowed in their appointed places below decks, I coil, if they are long enough to do that, and hang on pulpit/pushpit/lifelines using a "lamb's ear".

I'm not familiar with the term. What is a "lamb's ear" with regard to securing a coil of rope? (Google doesn't seem to know, neither does Ashley)

[Montanan]

I provide the typically underage dock boy / girl with a six pack of his / her favorite beer to tend to tidying up my home dock lines upon departure and to assist in docking when we return to our slip. That and a monetary tip keeps them eagerly available for handling lines and other modest tasks.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by StuM

How do you keep her 6" off the dock while stepping off backwards when you have 15+ knots blowing you away from your finger?


My rule is that no one steps off until there is a secured line ashore.

Into a slip, it can be a challenge. Onto a face dock, even with 15 - 20 kts blowing us off, I can generally make an approach where the stern will slide up to the dock such that there's a few second window for the admiral to make a safe, calm step off. This boat blows the bow off much more than the stern, which buys a little time there. Once she's off, the boat will start to move away from the dock, but it only takes a few seconds to get a long spring line cleated, at which point I can power the boat back against the dock and hold it there. There are standing orders not to jump, and if a safe step can't be made, tell me and I'll either adjust or bail and re-try. If it's possible to reliably get a line on a cleat without stepping off, she'll do that instead.

If it's so windy that the above method won't work, it's unlikely that we could make an approach that involved reliably snagging a cleat without bailing out and re-trying quite a few times.

[Not a spy]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

quote in part:

Years ago, when MyBeloved was brand new to seafaring, and our relationship was brand new, we were at a fuel barge. It was her third time out, but I had taught her, gently but firmly, in the way I used to teach Navy League Cadets. We finish fueling, and I order: "Single up!".…


TrentePieds

Why did I think this was going to end badly?

[AuChante]

Originally Posted by Not a spy

Why did I think this was going to end badly?

I thought the same thing. I guess cadets have a different experience than the lowly enlisted.

[TrentePieds]

AuChante said: "I thought the same thing. I guess cadets have a different experience than the lowly enlisted."

Indeed, the Navy League Cadet experience is nothing like that of "nossers" in the RN or even the RCN. RCNL cadets are between 10 and 12 years old :-)!

My reference was not particularly to the particular seaman's skills taught but rather to the manner in which you teach ANY subject to innocents. Rather like teaching puppy dogs, actually: very gently, very kindly, very firmly, and with unceasing repetition of very simple actions.

MyBeloved loves being in the boat, but she is terrified of the prospect of skippering. Not surprising when you've never set foot in a boat till you are five-and-sixty :-) But no problem! I recognized that the first time we went out, and I adapted my style to accommodate her. As you know, there is no trick to conning a 30-footer, but unless you choose to single-hand a boat with a bunch of passengers aboard, it requires that the crewmembers are capable of executing EVERY command given promptly and proficiently. And a green crewmember cannot do that unless s/he has been taught. Gently, firmly and by constant repetition. The problem for a green skipper is, of course, that because he doesn't know with unshakable certainty what commands to give, he cannot do such teaching :-)

The effect of proper teaching is to create an iLLUSION that the greenhorn is "in charge".

And now, for you Au Chante, I invite you to study carefully - not just look at it, but study carefully - this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBOJ...nnel=SveinHaDD

This man is executing a maneuver we ALL must be able to execute: What I call the "pirouette": He is doing it in 30 TON boat - not a mere 30-footer - with a one-lung semidiesel that stands 6 foot tall and has a reversible pitch propeller instead of the deeky little transmission we have. That calls for perfect timing and not a little guts :-)!

In TP, a 5-tonner with a right-hand prop, just like your boat, I do it every time I come into my slip, and often elsewhere. I recommend that you practise it assiduously. It's wonderful for building confidence :-)!

Cheers

TP

TP