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Old 29-11-2022, 11:56   #16
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

As one who lives in that part of the world where bull rails predominate (probably 90+% here in British Columbia), I'll just say I prefer them to cleats.


Tying to pilings? Now that's abominable (especially with our big tides)! [emoji6]
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Old 29-11-2022, 12:03   #17
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

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It really depends on your situation. If it's your slip and no one else is going to use it, and you'll be back in a day or less, it's a convenience to leave the lines on the dock. And if you're someplace with bull rails (not to beat a dead horse...) or rings, you can leave the lines tied to the bull rails or rings, and pick up the lines with a boat hook if you don't have shoreside assistance and it's windy.

Depending on the dock layout and whether the marina will allow such modifications you can put hooks on the pilings or affix a flexible fiberglass pole or something to hold the lines where you can reach them when coming alongside.
Exactly. It depends a lot on the slip. Our home slip is rarely used for transients when we're gone, so even leaving for a week or 2 it's not a big deal to leave lines behind. If leaving for longer, we'd take our lines with us. We're backed in against a bulkhead, so lines lay on the finger pier, the edge of the bulkhead behind us, and the bow line hangs from a hook on the piling at the outer end of the dock.

Because it's a narrow slip we're backing into and we don't have a bow thruster, being able to get a bow line on early while backing in to keep the bow from drifting into the center piling or neighboring boat makes a big difference when docking (as I can maneuver the stern adequately, but without the bow constrained it can be a challenge in some wind directions).


Generally we plan any docking routine (either our home slip or away from home) to only rely on the 2 of us and we assume no help is available on the dock.
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Old 29-11-2022, 12:34   #18
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

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How do yall keep your lines out of the water when you go out for the day? I haven't found a good way of doing it when there's just two of us. The bow lines and one spring line can be tossed onto a hook on the pile, but the stern lines and other spring line are thrown onto the dock. Sometimes they make it onto the dock, and sometimes fall into the water. I also don't like having those lines spread across the dock for people to trip on.


My current setup is all lines are more/less permanently cleated to the dock/pile, and loops tied on the boat end so I just plop it over the cleat and length is pre-set.
I never leave my dock lines at the dock. My dock lines are all typically longer than most too. I have a 41ft boat and my bow lines are 40ft, stern lines 25ft and same for spring. When getting ready to go I will loop the line around the dock bollard and tie back on board. When ready to go I can slip the lines and then bring them onboard with me. Easier to manage that way and if I decide to extend the daysail to another port, I have my dock lines with me.
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Old 29-11-2022, 14:46   #19
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

I have “framed” several dock slips including my own. The framing lines provide a convenient place to lay your lines across when you leave and also give you or mates a place to grab or push if the boat get a little cattywampus coming in. All my lines are pre set with loops.

The white line in the water is my tide indicator which is visible inside, another advantage of the framing lines.
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Old 29-11-2022, 19:42   #20
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

On my Pearson 30 the marina has rings so our dock lines are left there, we have another set for anyplace else we go all 25' long. On our home port lines I leave only one stern line ( depending on wind direction ) , laying the others out neatly on the dock. I get onboard and cast the last line onto the dock ( downwind side ) Push off with a shove to get space from the dock and give a shot of reverse. I do this alone in all conditions alone. Your boat should be about the same. The wind pins the boat to the dock. If there is no wind it should be easy to do this.
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Old 30-11-2022, 05:02   #21
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

As far as the comments on length, etc. we have mostly 25 footers (and a 35 footer) for our home slip setup. And then we carry a mix of 25, 35, and 50 foot lines aboard for travel (plus a long trip would include taking the lines from our home slip).

Some people like to keep lines too short to reach the prop, but I think that makes them unsuitably short in many cases. When dealing with high winds or a sub-optimal cleat layout on the dock, there's no such thing as lines that are too long. I've used almost every inch of a 50 footer a couple times to get a good spring line setup. Long lines stretch more as well, so laying them out to maximize length and keep the angles shallow also improves how the boat rides in bad weather at a dock.
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Old 30-11-2022, 05:31   #22
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pirate Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

Never leave my lines on the Dock..
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Old 30-11-2022, 07:29   #23
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

I'll have to get a system going I think. We've only been out a handfull of times so far, so there's plenty of room for improvement. We've been using the "cast all lines off and get moving now now now" method.
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Old 30-11-2022, 07:34   #24
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

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Originally Posted by AuChante View Post
I'll have to get a system going I think. We've only been out a handfull of times so far, so there's plenty of room for improvement. We've been using the "cast all lines off and get moving now now now" method.

That's really common with smaller boats that can be held in place with a hand or foot.


Another fact to consider is that, at fuel docks etc where larger boats rarely visit, dockhands will try to hold onto your boat with one hand or foot unless told not to, and sometimes even then.
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Old 30-11-2022, 07:48   #25
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

My habit has always been to keep the lines with the boat; leaving them on the dock feels a bit like leaving laundry on the floor. (I'm also in the "bull rails are an abomination" camp.) For departure, lines are cast off or doubled back to the boat as appropriate.

Short lines cause much more trouble than they're worth; it's important to be able to cast a loop over a cleat (or god forbid, a piling), and often springing requires not just sufficient length to reach a farther cleat, but to also return back to the boat.
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Old 30-11-2022, 07:58   #26
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

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Some people like to keep lines too short to reach the prop, but I think that makes them unsuitably short in many cases.

I think I started this by stating that I cut my lines so they can't reach the prop (at least the bow and amidships ones).


I have longer lines aboard that I can pull out when necessary.
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Old 30-11-2022, 08:52   #27
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

For all that Jammer's post #14 must surely be tongue in cheek, it does contain a truth or two, and even a remark or two that may be useful for AuChante for whose benefit we are engaging in all this argy-bargy :-)

First of all, let's acknowledge that the bullrail is Neptune's gift to yachtsmen everywhere, one he made on a fine day when he was in a particularly jolly and benign mood. There are, of course, odd places - very odd places - here and there across the world where the gift has not been accepted with the grace and gratitude one thinks that it should have been.

The reason the bullrail works so well is that whether it be executed in wooden fourbefours, as is the case where I am, or in steel tubing as is common on fuel barges and other such, it permits ALWAYS that breast lines be set truly perpendicular to the vessel's centreline in the manner anticipated by KR&AI. A moment's reflection will inform even those of you who may not be blessed with bullrails where you are, that although Jammer suggests that it is, it simply isn't possible for a round turn to slide along the bull rail when set by a moderately competent seafarer because the rail's stand-offs will prevent it.

Thus, a vessel's position along a dock can, regardless of the vessel's length, be adjust with a precision of mere inches PROVIDED one's docklines are of appropriate length and innocent of eyes and other impediments to good seamanship.

And as for AuChante's "problem" which appears to be that his ability to maneuver elegantly in close quarters is yet but nascent, we can, in another post, come back to the joys of "singling up" to a springline as one step in achieving an elegant departure. We can even relate that to his particular situation at his home dock which he has already explained to us, and of which I furnished a sketch a couple of weeks ago.

And before we leave the bullrail and the "Round Turn and Double Hitch": Jammer advocates the "Midshipman's Hitch" — known to me for obvious reasons as the "Snotty Hitch": What is a Snotty Hitch but a misbegotten "Round Turn and Double Hitch"? It is useless on a bullrail, and a horn cleat should never be belayed with anything other than a proper "Cleat Hitch"!

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Old 30-11-2022, 09:00   #28
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

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The reason the bullrail works so well is that whether it be executed in wooden fourbefours, as is the case where I am, or in steel tubing as is common on fuel barges and other such, it permits ALWAYS that breast lines be set truly perpendicular to the vessel's centreline in the manner anticipated by KR&AI.

I don't see this as much of an advantage personally. For the sake of reducing shock loads, I typically do my best to avoid breast lines as much as possible when tying up. It's not uncommon to see my boat tied up with a half-dozen lines, none of which are at less than a 45 degree angle or shorter than 20 feet save for a bow line that may come closer to being a breast line (but it'll still typically have some angle if possible).
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Old 30-11-2022, 09:25   #29
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Dock line management when leaving dock

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
I don't see this as much of an advantage personally. For the sake of reducing shock loads, I typically do my best to avoid breast lines as much as possible when tying up. It's not uncommon to see my boat tied up with a half-dozen lines, none of which are at less than a 45 degree angle or shorter than 20 feet save for a bow line that may come closer to being a breast line (but it'll still typically have some angle if possible).


Agreed never have right angles dock lines. Seen cleats ripped clean out of the grp when a trawler passed by.

For med mooring I carry two big stern hooks to carry the loops but I only load them 10 mins before docking. I never sail with dock lines loose on board.
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Old 30-11-2022, 09:25   #30
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Re: Dock line management when leaving dock

AuChante said :I'll have to get a system going I think"

Bingo!, AuChante, that's the top and the bottom of it!

We can joke about here in the forum, and us old geezers can bloviate about all the wonderful stuff we've learned over the years, but that won't really help you. What you really need is two days of understudying, in your own boat, a geezer who 1) knows his stuff and 2) can teach. Those two abilities don't necessarily reside in the same body.

Think about this now: Maneuvering in close quarters is like painting. A good final job depends crucially on sound preparation. I think you, like all beginners, are probably in far too much of a hurry!

Take your time to understand what preparation is required and how to execute it. Then take you time to implement it. Even a little 30-foot, 5-ton boat like yours (and mine) is far too big a hammer to play silly-buggers with. Learn to handle it as one would a grown-up ship.

Years ago, when MyBeloved was brand new to seafaring, and our relationship was brand new, we were at a fuel barge. It was her third time out, but I had taught her, gently but firmly, in the way I used to teach Navy League Cadets. We finish fueling, and I order: "Single up!". MB starts to single up, and I go to the helm. MB finishes singling up and reports ""Singled up!". I do my helming schtick, and order "Let go!". MB lets go, brings the springline aboard and begins to coil it. Those were all the words spoken. Six in all. We have backed away maybe 50 feet from the fuel barge when I hear a voice from the barge: "Boy! Those guys have a system!"

There really isn't much to it, and if I were with you in your boat, you would have it down pat in less than a morning's work. It all depends on learning what the successful methods are and then not deviating from them.

Maneuvering a boat in close quarters is NOTHING like handling a car in a parking lot.

The fact that you recognize that you need a system means that you are more than halfway to success :-)!

Bonne chance :-)!

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