Dock line management when leaving dock

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

A moment's reflection will inform even those of you who may not be blessed with bullrails where you are, that although Jammer suggests that it is, it simply isn't possible for a round turn to slide along the bull rail when set by a moderately competent seafarer because the rail's stand-offs will prevent it.

It can, of course, slide between standoffs, the spacing of which is highly variable and sometimes wider than one might like.

And before we leave the bullrail and the "Round Turn and Double Hitch": Jammer advocates the "Midshipman's Hitch" — known to me for obvious reasons as the "Snotty Hitch": What is a Snotty Hitch but a misbegotten "Round Turn and Double Hitch"? It is useless on a bullrail[.]

The correct, seamanlike way to tie up to a bull rail is to install a horn cleat on it using proper hardware and then tie a cleat hitch. It is courteous and part of leaving a "clean wake" to leave the cleat in place for future visitors, who will appreciate your thoughtfulness.

A horn cleat should never be belayed with anything other than a proper "Cleat Hitch"!

We agree on that.

[TrentePieds]

Since our heading is "dock line management", here is a wonderful illustration of a "professional" messing up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s_H...nnel=PeterRowe

It all started with the skipper coming in too fast, though we can't tell if that was a result of mechanical difficulty, such as we have seen suggested in this thread that AuChante may be having. Smacking a dock hard enuff to burst a "scotsman" is not something AuChante is likely to ever do since he hasn't the tonnage to do it:-)

The deckhand, however, gives us a master class in what can happen when 1) you haven't imagined all the 'orrible things that can 'appen to you, and haven't devised anticipatorily what you must do to prevent them, to stop them when they begin their nasty work, and remediate their results one you have stopped them, and 2) you lose your cool. It's a wonder that that deckhand didn't get a hand crushed!

The dockhand who jumps aboard knows his stuff, but the deckhand doesn't have the wit to get out of his way. Fundamental rules in TP: 1) You don't "help" unless you are asked! 2)You will not he asked unless you are known to have the necessary skills to do what you are being asked to do, and 3) when asked, you do what you are asked to do promptly and proficiently.

In think for AuChante's sake we should bring the discussion back to the very fundamentals of what is required in his particular situation which is a very common one. Let's give AuChante just the very basis he needs for his home slip. Visiting other marinas, he might very well be able to go to the hammerhead, and if he can't, then one finger slip is much like another, and he can employ the skills he uses in his home slip.

TrentePieds

[TrentePieds]

Jammer sez "It can, of course, slide between standoffs, the spacing of which is highly variable and sometimes wider than one might like."

But why would you let it? Are your spring lines not long enuff? Again, for AuChante's benefit:

Your dock lines should be long enuff to allow for the eventuality of having to reach a longish way. So what you do is this:

1) belay your dockline IMMEDIATELY BEYOND a convenient stand-off leaving no more of an end to the line than is required to make sure that the double hitch to the round turn is secure and will remain so.

2) bring the line to the boat, take it through a chock and belay it on a cleat, a bollard or a samson post making the bight as taut or as slack as you fancy and the circumstances obtaining demand.

3) cheese down the running part of the line (the "surplus" after you've belayed it) on you own deck! Bad, bad form to leave your lines on the dock/pontoon/float. To "cheese" a line - called "flemishing it" among the pedants - you do this:
\https://www.animatedknots.com/flemish-flake-knot

TP

[requiem]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

1) belay your dockline IMMEDIATELY BEYOND a convenient stand-off leaving no more of an end to the line than is required to make sure that the double hitch to the round turn is secure and will remain so.

You know, once you're dependent on the stand-off positioning, you may as well chop the bullrail near the stand-off point, so that you simply have two horns protruding from the stand-off. It'd make getting the line on much simpler. I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already marketed some sort of two-horned structure that you could bolt to the dock at whichever location you like.

[Be Free]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Since our heading is "dock line management", here is a wonderful illustration of a "professional" messing up:

It all started with the skipper coming in too fast, though we can't tell if that was a result of mechanical difficulty, such as we have seen suggested in this thread that AuChante may be having. Smacking a dock hard enuff to burst a "scotsman" is not something AuChante is likely to ever do since he hasn't the tonnage to do it:-)

The deckhand, however, gives us a master class in what can happen when 1) you haven't imagined all the 'orrible things that can 'appen to you, and haven't devised anticipatorily what you must do to prevent them, to stop them when they begin their nasty work, and remediate their results one you have stopped them, and 2) you lose your cool. It's a wonder that that deckhand didn't get a hand crushed!

The dockhand who jumps aboard knows his stuff, but the deckhand doesn't have the wit to get out of his way. Fundamental rules in TP: 1) You don't "help" unless you are asked! 2)You will not he asked unless you are known to have the necessary skills to do what you are being asked to do, and 3) when asked, you do what you are asked to do promptly and proficiently.

In think for AuChante's sake we should bring the discussion back to the very fundamentals of what is required in his particular situation which is a very common one. Let's give AuChante just the very basis he needs for his home slip. Visiting other marinas, he might very well be able to go to the hammerhead, and if he can't, then one finger slip is much like another, and he can employ the skills he uses in his home slip.

TrentePieds

Don't miss the ironic name of the vessel.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

The two essential knots for handling dock lines are the "cleat hitch" and the "round turn and two half hitches". Practice them till you can tie them with one hand. In the dark. Under water :-)! If you are very lucky - or knowledgeable - your boat may have a "samson post". In that case add a "bollard hitch" to the other two knots.

Just saying:
There's more places to use a bollard hitch than a sampson post, it should be in every sailors repertoire.

It's often useful around a winch for example.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For a home slip you regularly return to, taking your lines with you isn't always a good option. Depending on the slip layout, having lines pre-set allows you to get at least a spring line on sooner in the docking process. And for a challenging slip, that can increase the wind limits where you can safely get the boat in.

If you have dock cleats and you know how to cast a large bight around one, it's actually easier, and safer) to get a spring line on initially from on board than it is to get one off the dock. (Especially single handed)

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by StuM

If you have dock cleats and you know how to cast a large bight around one, it's actually easier, and safer) to get a spring line on initially from on board than it is to get one off the dock. (Especially single handed)

With well placed cleats, yes, that can work quite well. However, our home slip has fairly tall fixed docks so I can easily pick up a line while standing on the side deck, no need to step off or use a boat hook. If we had lower docks, I'd probably have the "first on" lines on a pole with hooks like we have for the bow line to make sure they can be quickly grabbed and dropped on a boat cleat.



For an unfamiliar slip, typically the admiral will step off with a spring line in hand and cleat it. If it's a reasonable step to make safely, we find that more reliable than trying to lasso a cleat from the boat (which I've seen many times end in a couple of missed attempts, add some wind and you're bailing out for another try).

[GrowleyMonster]

My normal home slip tie up is two bow breast lines, two springs leading aft from the bow, two springs leading forward from just forward of the cockpit, and two crossed stern lines leading to the main pier. When I single up, I take the windward bow line's eye off the piling and double it around the piling and back to a bow cleat for a quick and easy cast-off, and when I do finally cast it off I keep that line aboard. I also keep the stern lines for last. They are adjusted from the dock cleats and only eyes in the ends are on boat cleats. They are short and I just let them dangle in the water when I cast off for a short trip. They can't reach my prop so no worries there.

The rest of my lines I make up in big coils and secure with nine thread or similar twine that I can break easily, and I hang them on the first pilings, where they can be retrieved with the boathook on the way back in to the slip.

So, I am singled up. I cast off that bow line with the engine dead slow ahead, light strain on the stern lines to hold me more or less centered in the slip. That line comes aboard and later gets coiled and hung from the handrail when on short outings. I go back aft and put engine in neutral, drop the stern lines, go slow or half ahead out of the slip. Coming in, I approach with the slip on my port quarter and use the backing right hand screw's tendency to back to port, to get me lined up with the windward outer piling so I can grab the windward lines and also pass the windward bow line. I use those lines to keep me in the slip as I back in and retrieve my stern lines. Then I slack my windward lines and fall off to leeward where I can retrieve those lines. It is a wide slip. I pull myself back centered with the windward lines, snug everything up, and pass the gangway to the main pier. I have a finger pier on one side but it is pretty low and it is something of a climb or jump to get down onto it, so the gangway on the stern or simply stepping across to the pier is preferred. Shore power, water, and Finished With Engine.

If I am going to be gone for a while I would coil most of my lines and store them in the dock box, but TBH I have not really taken this boat voyaging yet. I do keep some lines aboard for tying up away from the home slip. Two on deck, for bar/restaurant/fuel docks, the rest below, coiled and tied for storage.

A high freeboard 45' sloop is different from a Catalina 27 and different from a 78' motor yacht. Docking with crew is different from doing it solo. Different slips or docks with different cleat or bollard or piling or dead man resources are, well, different. Skipper/owner preferences, too. Environental conditions like weather and current. Home slip or away slip. Leaving forever, for a week, overnight, or a "Gilligan". ("a threeee hour tour...") The more times you do it the more refined and detailed your docking/undocking plan will become, and the easier it will be.

[edexter]

We back in to our slip. We keep our stern lines on neat little clips that I bought at the US Sailboat Show many years ago on the stern, so throw a spring line over the starboard winch holding us up against the finger pier, undo the stern docklines, and then get ready to motor. I pull us out a little bit using the slip line (small boat, smaller than the slip). The Captain is in the bow with the boathook if she needs it; but we usually just pull the bow over to the dolphin on the lee side, hang the line on a stout nail in the dolphin, then pull us over to the upwind side. When we are ready to go, she throws the line over the nail, I let go of the slip line, and throw it into gear gently, and out we go. I do the same thing if single-handed, but leave the slip line on til I run back to the cockpit.

Here's a pic, the line hangers are on the quarters on the stern rail. The finger pier really helps make things easy.

[Noahr]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

I cast off all lines except one spring line. With engine running idle forward and rudder turned away the dock, the boat is pinned to the dock and will stay there as long as you need to neatly stow the rest of the lines. When ready I go to neutral and release the spring, hanging it on its hook on a piling. Same process in reverse when returning, hook up the spring line motoring against it with rudder away from the dock then calmly go around and connect the rest of the lines. Boat is always under control and no jumping off onto the dock required. I use the genoa cleat in the cockpit for that spring line, I can reach it from the wheel so I can do this as easily single handed as with crew.

How does that system work when it is a floating dock, no pilings, with cleats on the dock? Do you lasso the cleat or jump onto the dock?

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Another way you can do what's needed is to take the dock lines with you, as you would when entering an unfamiliar marina.

When we do this, we use a line from the midship cleat, and I step off the boat with it and cleat hitch it on the outermost cleat, then Jim holds the boat in place in the manner described in which captjgw described: engine in dead slow fwd, water flow over the rudder pushing the boat to the dock. Then I put on the stern line, and then the windward bow line, followed by the leeward bow line. An aft spring line can be added forward.

To leave, set it so the boat is pinned to the dock, toss lines aboard (or fix them on the pontoon, if you're coming back), and do the spring last. It's right there by the gait where you board. Flip it on board and step to the tiller or wheel.

Ann

Jim and Ann
I do something similar, except I am a single handler.
The dock is on my port side. I have a spring line from the port aft piling to the port centerline cleat on my boat when docked.
When leaving the dock, I put the boat in reverse at idle and remove the two aft lines, then I put the boat in forward at idle. The spring line holds the boat to the dock while I release the two bow lines. I then release the spring line from the dock and coil and stow it on deck, so I can use it in the reverse order when returning to the dock. That way it is the proper length, and all I have to do is lasso the port aft piling when I came in, and it pulls the boat neatly to the dock and holds it while I step off and attach the other lines.
I always take all of my dock lines with me when I leave. That way if I dock somewhere else I don’t have to use my spare hurricane dock lines. 😁

Al, S/V Finlandia

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Noahr

How does that system work when it is a floating dock, no pilings, with cleats on the dock? Do you lasso the cleat or jump onto the dock?

When we do it as a crew of 2, I usually align the boat so the admiral can calmly step off onto the dock with the spring line in hand and quickly pop it on a cleat (unless the dock is tall enough to be able to reliably snag a cleat from the deck). Then I can hold the boat in place as long as needed while we take care of the remaining lines.

[Cheechako]

Leave em ready on the dock.

[svfinlandia]

Bad, bad form to leave your lines on the dock/pontoon/float. To "cheese" a line - called "flemishing it" among the pedants - you do this:
\https://www.animatedknots.com/flemish-flake-knot

TP[/QUOTE]

I personally agree that it is bad for me to leave your lines on the dock.
I also (personally) never liked flemished lines. Either on the dock or on the deck.
It looks very pretty, but it gets wet and holds moisture and dirt. I normally coil my lines and hang them on the rail and make them tight. That way they dry quickly and don’t collect dirt.

Al, S/V Finlandia