Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[MichaelC]

Baking bread is easy, without an oven. Use a heavy aluminum pot with a lid, grease it ans coat that with coarse corn meal [or masa harina, or ...] and bake the bread on the stove top over low heat. Takes 45 to 55 minutes. I use an aluminum pressure cooker with no seal and no rocker, but Club Aluminum works. All available in thrift stores for under 5 bucks. Heads stink. Any head. Like motors, they all stink. If you can possibly arrange not to have a V berth forward, you gain tremendous amounts of storage and the perfect place for your bucket.

[solarbri]

I, for one, have lived in an of grid house with a "Humanure" style composting toilet for years. It works great and has no odor. Sure you need a different mentality than just flushing it away but, check it out.
I have a nicely decorated box with a hinged top and an oval hole cut it.On top of that I mounted a nice, wood toilet seat and cover. Start off with around 3" of sawdust (peat moss, dried leaves, shredded newspaper, cat litter, etc.) in the bottom of the bucket.
After you leave your deposit, you cover completely with more cover material. One can go a whole week before needing to dump. At home I carry the bucket out to my compost pile and dump it (then cover that properly). If in a marina, pull the bucket, snap on its original air tight cover, and replace with another bucket (that originally came on board loaded with fresh cover material). One can carry the buckets ashore to dispose of, or go out to sea and dump.
Peeing outside most of the time helps minimize any potential odors and prolongs the time between dumps.
If you are only going out for a couple weeks or less, you can bring the buckets of resources back home to your compost pile. The poo (nitrogen) and pee (phosphorous) are key ingredients to add to your compost that are found in so many man made fertilizers. Now I'm starting to drift. Sorry...
For more info about Humanure check out the same titled book by Joseph Jenkins.
It is very informative and quite an enjoyable read.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

There's an old saying that if it looks like a rose, and smells like a rose, chances are its a rose..
A bucket to crap in, decorated, installed in a box, or disguised with cat litter, is still a bucket to crap in and is in NO way attractive

LOL!

Never been keen on the under V Berth head arrangement either - dunno what couples do

[MichaelC]

Yes, there was another thread on this site concerning composting toilets - commercial ones. And I do mean commercial. I was under the impression that we could no longer use buckets, and if the coasties caught you it would be a huge fine. So I ponied up the 900 dollars for a coast guard approved one that I am using in my trailer while I build my 32' cutter. You use peat moss - or beats peat, which is made from coir - in the toilet first. You crank it each time. No odor until it is time to empty it [I almost wrote dump time, but that would have been too confusing]. I have to empty every three weeks. It is time to empty now, which is why the rest of my trailer is spotless and I am writing on this computer and thinking about driving the 80 miles to see my daughter and grandkids and ... and .... Okay, I'll go dump the goddamn thing ....

[MarkJ]

We were at Effes (Ephuses) the other day and I took this photo of a chic on the commode.

Now if they could invent the dunny and have it working as a multi-potter in 550 BC why they hell are you lot going back to a BUCKET???

Any person with only a bucket on board must be, and will continue to be, single!

Crusing may be different for different folks but really.... come on board our boat and take a visit to 2 propper heads! Aaaaaand you can flush your toilet paper too!



Mark

[slomotion]

Mark, uh, there are no words.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by slomotion

Mark, uh, there are no words.

I take it you ain't been to France and seen / used............a pissoir



Or Germany



Not entirely off topic - the German design could easily be adapted for use onboard (around the mast? )

[sailorboy1]

Been a while since i've been to Fance, but this sure looks an improvement over the just general pissing in the streets from when I was there!

[goprisko]

Thus far we have outfitted the Southern Cross 31 with the following:
Full suit of sails $ 3500
Anchors and gear $ 1600
Galley including cooker, sink and hand pump $ 2000
Head including LAVAC, sink, and plumbing $ 1020
Standing Rigging, wire, turnbuckles, sockets $ 2116
Running Rigging , rope, winches, blocks $ 3900
New bottom paint, including haulout $ 1000
LED Lamps, fridge, battery and Distribution Panel $ 2500

TOTAL $ 17,316
We have assumed that the hull and deck have been examined and all open items from the checklist are dealt with.

From the above, we can see what a deal a boat in good condition represents.. For example, the boat available in Luperon, DR is bringing only $ 12.000 for the hull, deck, mast, engine, and interior.


Running Rigging
ITEM Dia Feet Price / ft TOTAL LIFE Annual Operating Cost TOTAL
INCH
Main Halyard 0.31 60 1.09 $65.40 10 $6.54
Staysail Halyard 0.31 55 1.09 $59.95 10 $6.00
Yankee Halyard 0.31 65 1.09 $70.85 10 $7.09
Main Sheet 0.44 50 1.33 $66.50 10 $6.65
Yankee Sheet 0.44 60 1.33 $79.80 10 $7.98
Staysail Sheet 0.44 48 1.33 $63.84 10 $6.38
Preventer 0.44 35 1.33 $46.55 10 $4.66
TOTAL $452.89 $45.29 $452.89

Snatch Blocks 2 139 $278.00 40 $6.95
MastHead Sheaves 3 12 $36.00 40 $0.90
Preventer Blocks 12 $0.00 40 $0.00
Mainsheet Triple Block 1 150 $150.00 40 $3.75
Mainsheet Double Block 1 70 $70.00 40 $1.75
Anderson 12 St Winch 4 538 $2,152.00 40 $53.80
Anderson 18 St Winch 2 604 $1,208.00 40 $30.20
TOTAL $3,894.00 40 $97.35 $3,894.00

Standing Rigging
ITEM Dia Feet Price / ft TOTAL LIFE
Lowers 0.25 48 4.61 $221.28 20 $11.06
intermediates 0.25 48 4.61 $221.28 20 $11.06
uppers 0.25 60 4.61 $276.60 20 $13.83
staysail stay 0.25 30 4.61 $138.30 20 $6.92
jib stay 0.25 40 4.61 $184.40 20 $9.22
back stay 0.25 40 4.61 $184.40 20 $9.22
Turnbuckles 0.375 11 70 $770.00 40 $19.25
Poured Sockets 0.25 24 5 $120.00 40 $3.00
$83.56
TOTAL $2,116.26 $2,116.26




LEDs and ENGLE Fridge

ITEM Size # Price /ea TOTAL LIFE
LED Lamps 5 watt 5 30 $150.00 20 $7.50
Masthead Tricolor, anchor with automatic photodiode 5 watt 1 341 $341.00 20 $17.05
Battery Switch 200 amp 1 83 $83.00 40 $2.08
DC Circuit Breaker Panel with volt and amp meters 5 branch circuits 1 423 $423.00 40 $10.58
Two Conductor Tinned Marine Cable-interior lighting 12 guage 25 1.4 $35.00 40 $0.88
Three Conductor Tinned Marine Cable- mast lighting 14 guage 40 1.4 $56.00 40 $1.40
Solar Panel 60 Watt 2 120 $240.00 20 $12.00
Solar Panel Controller 10 amp 1 90 $90.00 10 $9.00
ENGLE Fridge 45 qt 1 800 $800.00 7 $114.29
Gp 31 deep cycle battery 115 amp hr 2 130 $260.00 7 $37.14
Annual Operating Cost $2,478.00 $211.90 $2,478.00

Galley
Cooker 2 Burnerw/joven 1 900 $900.00 20 $45.00
Galley Sink Single 1 140 $140.00 40 $3.50
Galley Pump Fynspray WS80 1 250 $250.00 40 $6.25
Seacock, thruhull hose and clamps Marelon fittings 1 160 $160.00 20 $8.00
LPG Tanks, regulator, valves, and piping 2- 20# Al Tanks 2 160 $320.00 20 $16.00
LPG Regulator regulator 1 30 $30.00 10 $3.00
LPG Shutoff Valve - Parker Hannifin Stainless 1 80 $80.00 40 $2.00
Stainless tube and swagelok fittings Stainless 1 120 $120.00 40 $3.00
TOTAL $2,000.00 $86.75 $2,000.00

HEAD
LAVAC WC with Henderson Pump 1 700 $700.00 40 $17.50
Seacock, thruhull hose and clamps Marelon fittings 2 160 $320.00 20 $16.00
TOTAL $1,020.00 $33.50 $1,020.00

SAILS
Ctuising Chute 1 700 $700.00 20 $35.00
Main 2 350 $700.00 10 $70.00
Yankee #1 1 350 $350.00 10 $35.00
Staysail #1 1 250 $250.00 10 $25.00
Yankee #2 1 350 $350.00 10 $35.00
Staysail #2 1 250 $250.00 10 $25.00
Trysail 1 200 $200.00 20 $10.00
Storm Staysail 1 200 $200.00 20 $10.00
$3,000.00 $245.00 $3,000.00
GROUND TACKLE
Chain 5/16" hiTest 200 3 $600.00 40 $15.00
Luke Storm Anchor 70# 1 700 $700.00 40 $17.50
Bower Anchors 44# bruce 2 90 $180.00 40 $4.50
Kedges 25# danforth 2 60 $120.00 40 $3.00
$0.00 40 $0.00
$1,600.00 $40.00



SELF STEERING
Vertical Axis Trim Tab 1 200 $200.00 40 $5.00
$200.00 $5.00 $200.00

INTERIOR
Cushions 4 100 $400.00 20 $20.00
$400.00 $20.00 $400.00
MISCELLANEOUS
Boat hooks, fire extinguishers, etc $1000 10 $100.00 $100.00


Annual Operating Cost $968.36
$15,561.15
Depreciation of Southern Cross 31 $80,000.00
$25,000.00
$55,000.00 30 $1,833.33 43.6years
Now, le\t’s review our depreciation assumptions:
The SC 31 sold for $ 80,000 new in 1980.
Currently a good one is on offer for $ 29,000, and several have sold for $ 24,000, so it would seem that the boat is worth about $ 25,000 in operating condition today, 30 years after it was built, and it has depreciated $55,000 or ~ $ 1800 per year. This means the boat will be fully depreciated at the age of 44 years, ie worthless. We know this is unlikely, given depreciation of this kind of asset generally follows the declining balance method, but this exercise does give us the round estimate of a useful life for the boat and everything on it of 50 years. So we can reasonably estimate the annual cost of the boat we purchase by assuming it will continue to depreciate as it has in the past. I recalculated depreciation for the boat assuming a useful life of 50 years, and a residual of $ 2,500. This gives depreciation for the 31st year at $ 980. This means an allowance of $ 1000 per year for operating cost of this boat will very likely be sufficient. Since the stock SC 31 includes an engine.. the difference between our $1400 figure and the $968 figure must be allocated to the engine. The engine will cost us $ 32 per year in operating costs, not including it’s fuel.
IN SUMMARY:
THE Southern Cross 31 can be cruised without an engine for about $ 970 per year. The boat as we configured it has slightly worn sails with much life left, has a LAVAC water closet, a Princess two burner LPG stove with oven, renewed standing and running rigging, suitable ground tackle, a dinghy, new bottom paint, and no engine.
Most of this expense is depreciation, but what items should we expect to require replacement during our cruise?
From my experience with this gear we should plan on the following expenses:
Replacement of sheets and halyards $450 at 10 year intervals = $ 45/yr
Replacement of diaphragm in Henderson pump $ 60 at 5 yrs = $ 12/yr
Replacement of LAVAC seals $45 at 10 yrs = $ 5/yr
New ENGLE fridge $ 800 at 7yrs = $ 110/yr
New Gp 31 batteries $ 260 at 7 yrs = $ 37/yr
Servicing of Winches annually $ 54 for service Kit ea 5 yrs = $ 10/yr
Diinghy oars $ 140 at 10 yrs = $ 15/yr
Ship’s oar $ 240 at 10 yrs =$ 24/yr
Bottom paint $ 500 at 5 yrs = $ 100/yr
Topside paint $ 200 at 5 yrs =$ 40/yr
FynSpray Pumps $ 10 at 2 yrs ( repl leathers ) =$ 5/yr
Deck Paint $120 at 5 yrs =$ 24/yr
Interior Paint $120 at 5 yrs = $ 24/yr
Plumbing $150 at 10 yrs = $ 15/yr
Wiring $ 100 at 10 yrs =$ 10/yr
Replacement bulbs $200 at 10 yrs =$ 20/yr
Regalv Chain $ 300 at 10 yrs =$ 30/yr
Replace LPG Tanks $360 at 20 yrs =$ 36 / yr
Replace Sails $3500 at 10 yrs =$ 350 /yr
TOTAL $912 / yr The balance is allocated to a rainy day fund to cover contingencies.

Using the double declining balance method to depreciate the Southern Cross 31, assuming a residual value of $2,500 for the scrap value of the keel, and fittings, a useful life of 50 years, and a boat that is 30 years old gives $ 980 for depreciation.

From these various analyses… depreciation of the critical systems, depreciation of the entire boat, and expected repairs and replacements we get the following:


Depreciation of the whole boat $ 970 / yr
Expected Repairs $ 912 / yr
Depreciation of critical systems $ 1,018 / yr

Note the cluster of values. From this we can conclude that the Southern Cross 31, outfitted per our analysis will cost $ 970 per year to operate.

What about dodgers, cabin heaters, weather cloths, and the myriad other things one can put on a boat? Of most importance, any of these added will increase operating cost. Therefore none of these should be added, unless there is a clear need for it.

What about the Compass, depth sounder, anemometer, and myriad other gadgets one can put on a boat? Any of these will increase operating cost if present. None of these should be added, unless there is a clear need for it. Also, we have relegated all of these devices to the “Navigation” category, precisely because the voyage determines the need and presence of many, if not all of these items.

SUMMARY:

Configured with an LPG 2 burner stove with oven, LAVAC head, new cushions, new standing rigging, new running rigging, sails in good condition, a homebuilt wind vane, boat hook, fire extinguishers, flares, ENGLE refrigerator, solar panels, batteries, LED interior and navigation lamps, a sailing Chameleon dinghy, oars, bulkhead compass, windex, hand lead, and ground tackle, the Southern Cross 31’s annual operating cost is: $ 952.

Our annual cruising budget now is:
Maintenance and Repair $ 970
Provisions $ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes, all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees $ 150
Fuel $ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees $ -0-
Communication $ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment $ 800
Navigation $ 700
Insurance, Boat $ -0-
Insurance Health $ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs $ 150
Clothing and Sundries $ 290


TOTAL $ 6,000


INDY

[goprisko]

The man who wishes to cruise economically must stray from the beaten path....

Grenville, Grenada is such an outlier... A POE to the country, one finds there only the occasional yacht... Generally, these are about 30 ft LOA, French or European flagged, and not in the best condition.

Grenville has two reef systems to negotiate on entry, and the range is a bearing on the church spire downtown. Without the BA pilot, or Street's guide and good charts, entry has disuaded most cruisers. to the point they don't go there.

However, it is a transport hub, a banking center, and a shopping center, with the best prices on the island.

There are many such waiting to be discovered by the adventurous..

Santa Maria Bay on St. Thomas is among them.. definitely not a place to go in winter or whenever north swell is running.. but it has springs, a lovely beach shoreside firepits.. all in all a lovely spot, untrod by most.

Finding these places requires good charts, and entering them requires accurate sailing directions, which the BA pilots provide, and some of the cruising guides do as well...

So, don't short change yourself, cruising on a budget requires you leave the "madding crowd" for places they don't go, but the locals do. After all, you want the "local" price, which is much cheaper. If you are like me, you also want local friends, who will enrich your experience many fold, however, many of them are shy in the places frequented by the "madding crowd", but easier to find off the beaten track.

This applies to cruising the US east coast too.

INDY

[goprisko]

Cruising Budgets:

Beth must be given great credit for assembling the data represented by her “How Much Will Cruising Cost You?” paper. Please note that Beth focused upon three different lifestyles. However, she did not break out the data further by boat size.
In my extensive experience of 60 years now, boat size is extremely important. It is the primary driver of Maintenance and Repair Expense. My experience has shown that this expense is a function of displacement, except where light displacement and catamarans are concerned, when the best metric is internal volume, otherwise known as ABS Tonnage, or Thames Tonnage. Why? This is so because all equipment grows in cost exponentially with tonnage. This applies to blocks, winches, ( look for example at the difference between the Andersen 12 St and the 18St winch, the latter is double the cost of the former), sails, ground tackle, and most other items.
Further compounding matters is the tendency of yachtsmen to fill larger boats with more stuff than anyone would tolerate in a smaller boat. In an effort to make boats cheaper, and more responsive, builders have reduced displacement in every size range, to the point that boats in the 40 ft category have insufficient tankage for their needs. One need only look at the lines of jerrycans on the decks of these vessels to prove this. Such deck storage of heavy weights with free surface effect reduces stability, often critically.
The man on a $6,000 per year budget must not follow the crowd. He must recognize that his boat must be simple, easy to repair with the items at hand, and of sufficient displacement to carry sufficient fuel, water, and provisions for his needs. In a boat between 28-34 ft LOA, this means heavy displacement, of between 5 – 8 tons. Our budget cruiser cannot afford the complexity of a water maker, assuming his boat has sufficient motive power to operate one, he needs tankage. He cannot afford fancy electronics, assuming again he has the power to run them, Likewise he cannot afford a RIB with a 15 hp outboard, SSB transceivers, computers, and roller furling. Each or all of these will burden him sufficiently to destroy his budget.
Instead the budget cruiser must allocate percentages of his annual expense for the various categories, with Excursions/Entertainment/Gifts as important as any. Please note that the proforma budget presented allocates $ 1050 or 13% of the budget to these items, 11% of the budget or $960 to Maintenance and repairs. And 40% or $2400 to Provisions. These are the three largest items, amounting to 65% of the budget or $4310. Crew morale demands that an adequate sum be allocated to the Excursions/Entertainment/Gifts category and the Provisions category.
Also please note that this budget assumes that all repairs are performed by the crew, and only the parts are purchased. This means the vessel must carry an adequate tool kit and spares. The budget cruiser must do his own work.
INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by solarbri

I, for one, have lived in an of grid house with a "Humanure" style composting toilet for years. It works great and has no odor. Sure you need a different mentality than just flushing it away but, check it out.
I have a nicely decorated box with a hinged top and an oval hole cut it.On top of that I mounted a nice, wood toilet seat and cover. Start off with around 3" of sawdust (peat moss, dried leaves, shredded newspaper, cat litter, etc.) in the bottom of the bucket.
After you leave your deposit, you cover completely with more cover material. One can go a whole week before needing to dump. At home I carry the bucket out to my compost pile and dump it (then cover that properly). If in a marina, pull the bucket, snap on its original air tight cover, and replace with another bucket (that originally came on board loaded with fresh cover material). One can carry the buckets ashore to dispose of, or go out to sea and dump.
Peeing outside most of the time helps minimize any potential odors and prolongs the time between dumps.
If you are only going out for a couple weeks or less, you can bring the buckets of resources back home to your compost pile. The poo (nitrogen) and pee (phosphorous) are key ingredients to add to your compost that are found in so many man made fertilizers. Now I'm starting to drift. Sorry...
For more info about Humanure check out the same titled book by Joseph Jenkins.
It is very informative and quite an enjoyable read.

This is a GREAT IDEA !!!!!

Thank you very much for sharing it !!!

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by MichaelC

Baking bread is easy, without an oven. Use a heavy aluminum pot with a lid, grease it ans coat that with coarse corn meal [or masa harina, or ...] and bake the bread on the stove top over low heat. Takes 45 to 55 minutes. I use an aluminum pressure cooker with no seal and no rocker, but Club Aluminum works. All available in thrift stores for under 5 bucks. Heads stink. Any head. Like motors, they all stink. If you can possibly arrange not to have a V berth forward, you gain tremendous amounts of storage and the perfect place for your bucket.

I agree, most boats between 28-32 ft LOA, are short on storage. If you have the time to reorganize the accomodation, why not enlarge the galley, place a stand up chart table opposite it, shift the saloon forward, and extend it a bit, so it takes up 8-9 ft of length, and use the forward bit for bulky items like spare sails, fenders, folding bikes etc.

For those without ovens, this is a great idea ! AND... cast iron Dutch Ovens are still made, are very cheap, and work great too!!

INDY

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by Aaza Dana

We're preparing to sell up and sail - and one of the preparations we're trying is to reduce our food bill to $300 per month for the two of us. This has worked fairly well, so long as:

1- I only buy in staples we really need, such as bulk buying budget pasta packs every few months
2 - I buy fresh veg from the local grocer, and in small amounts
3 - I stick to wafer thin ham in my sandwiches rather than the crabsticks (I know there's no crab in them) I so adore
4 - Marc keeps to a litre of ice-cream a month, rather than his desired half a litre a day
5 - I pad out meals with rice, pasta and veg
6 - I keep the receipts
7 - I avoid the chocolate aisle
8 - I avoid the tuck shop (this is starting to sound like my weightwatchers program)
9 - Some months we keep seperate accounts to see who costs the most (him, although he won't admit it despite the evidence)

As I say, it's been working fine, except for the weekly trip to the sushi restaurant which is $60 a night but TOTALLY worth it!

Would you please share with us, what life is like there....

Can you anchor out?

Can you get work?

Are there anchorages or beaches to visit?

Are the people, officials nice?

INDY

[goprisko]

I've been looking into engines...
Yanmar Style Engine

10 hp engine 1 $4,500.00 $4,500.00 4500 $1.000
Trans(included) 1 $500.00 $500.00 4500 $0.111
coupling 1 $400.00 $400.00 9000 $0.044
Seacock 2 $100.00 $200.00 9000 $0.011
Hose and Fittings 1 $100.00 $100.00 9000 $0.011
Muffler 1 $200.00 $200.00 9000 $0.022
Thruhulls 2 $120.00 $240.00 9000 $0.013
oil cooler 1 $160.00 $160.00 4500 $0.036
shaft 1 $200.00 $200.00 9000 $0.022
prop 1 $200.00 $200.00 9000 $0.022
cutless bearing 1 $100.00 $100.00 2400 $0.042
Hourly Operating Cost $1.34
Traditional styled engine with raw water pump and fresh water pump, heat exchanger, oil cooler, cooling water injected into exhaust riser. Requires quarterly zinc replacement on raw water circuit.

Farymann water cooled Engine 15 w

10 hp engine 1 $2,500.00 $2,500.00 4500 $0.556
Trans(included) 0 $500.00 $0.00 9000 $0.056
coupling 1 $400.00 $400.00 9000 $0.044
Seacock 0 $100.00 $0.00 9000 $0.011
Hose and Fittings 0 $100.00 $0.00 9000 $0.011
Muffler 1 $200.00 $200.00 9000 $0.022
Thruhulls 0 $120.00 $0.00 9000 $0.013
shaft 1 $200.00 $200.00 9000 $0.022
prop 1 $200.00 $200.00 9000 $0.022
cutless bearing 1 $100.00 $100.00 2400 $0.042
Hourly Operating Cost $0.80

Note the Farymann diesel is cooled by a GRP jacket around the cylinder, no water touches the engine
Water is routed from the pump to the exhaust riser and exits in the rubber exhaust hose and GRP water lift muffler. There is no oil cooler using water.


I also did further work on fuel costs at various operating speeds using the engine sizing charts, and propellor charts from Skenes.


ENGINE CALCULATIONS
Water Linee Length ft 25
Boat Speed knots 4.00 5.00 7.53
Speed - Length Ratio % 80.00% 100.00% 150.50%
Resistance / ton lb 6 10 47
Displacement lb 13,500 Ton 6
Resistance lb 42. 70 330.
Engine hp 1.21 1.53 12.64
rpm 738. 1096. 2200
Fuel Consumption gm/hp-hr 220 205 190
L/hr 0.29 0.35 2.67
Fuel Cost at $ 1 / L $/hr $0.29 $0.35 $2.67
Adding the two figures, operating cost and fuel cost we get this:

TOTAL OPERATING COST $1.09 $1.15 $3.47

From this we can see that the man on a budget must not only use his engine sparingly, but must operate his boat under power at a speed / length ratio less than 1. FYI the speed / length ratio is the speed (knots) / SQRT ( LWL)

For a boat with a 25 ft LWL, a ratio of 1 gives a speed of 5 knots.

Even so... were our cruiser to budget a sum of $ 104 / year for powering, this person would operate his engine 2 hours per week. Of course, the question is "Where will these funds come from?" Only the cruiser himself knows..

INDY