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Old 11-06-2010, 16:01   #436

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Tartan 34

Tartan 34
I am skipping the T30 because at 4.5 tons, it's displacement is too light. However,
Tartan produced the T34 during the same period and this S&S design is perfect at 6 tons displacement for our hypothetical cruiser.

Additionally, boats are available at $10-24 K depending on condition.

See the below drawing.

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:04   #437

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Southern Cross 31

Southern Cross 31
Designed by Tom Gillmer, and built in Rhode Island by CE Ryder, to a high standard.

This boat can and has gone around the world... With a displacement of 7 tons, this
boat has the carrying capacity to take your stuff with you.

This boat is one of the more expensive... with asking bids of $35K and boats going for $24 K.

See the plan below for more info...

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:16   #438
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Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35
Posts: 2,816
Images: 1
Originally Posted by leslie View Post
It Seems like our friend springbok is still living in the past. The RSA coast is only as dangerous as the skipper making the decisions. Read CPT Slocums book and you see what can be done. RSA coast a walk in the park. Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Stop wining get on a 23footer if you have to...I know sailors who has. As for criusing in namibia...Its damn great waking up in Samwich harbour and see no one. No one for miles apart from some tour operators in 4 wheel drives and they onle sometimes come within 5miles of the point. If you like to cruise other places do it. Different strokes for different folkes. As for 500$ us a month...That equals n$4000. the average salary per day here is less than N$100 and lots of people get by with less than N$ 50 a day. That is less than $4 US a day. You can cruise here for cheap. Depends on you.
Personally, I'd like to see more posts like this which seem more in line with the question posted in the OP. All this "analysis by paralysis" regarding the model of boat, equipment, etc. is distracting and really missed the point. IMHO
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
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Old 11-06-2010, 16:17   #439
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: O'Day 28
Posts: 3,916
town moorings

This thread has been hijacked repeatedly so I don't feel too bad about this: I lived aboard in Coconut Grove, Fl for quite awhile in the '80s. One of my several jobs was to survey the moorings at the Coconut Grove Sailing Club. The club had a revolving system of maintenance but I looked at, and rated each mooring underwater.

All concerned were dismayed at the results of the first survey, as a surprising number were worn oh so thin. Some, really, were worn to big necklace size. I began to do a yearly check and we used my results for the next several years until I moved on.

Indy's point is well made. I'd bet beer money that the mooring renter (you) assumes all the risk for using a town's moorings and has no power over quality control. The prudent mariner would be well-advised (I'm advising you right now) to dive on that mooring chain and terminal gear before heading into town in any weather.

I'd guess we'd all rather trust the ground tackle we know, and I lament the advent of public mooring fields, and can't help but think they were created not to cash in on the increasing # of cruisers, but rather as a way to regulate the boat bums. This was a hotter topic back then than now, and is yet another example of the wrong way to solve a problem. It's easy to distinguish between a boat bum and a low income sailor: just look at their boats.
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Old 11-06-2010, 16:19   #440

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Baba 30

Baba 30
The Baba 30 is a very nice boat that sells for $50-70 K at this price, it is far beyond
the means of our mythical cruiser.

The attachment has the interior and exterior plans for this boat.

Babas have cruised extensively, and are very good boats.

Lmax: 34’ 6” (including bowsprit)
LOA: 29’ 6” (excluding bowsprit)
LWL: 24’ 6”
Beam: 10’ 3”
Displacement: 12,500 lbs.
Draft: 4’ 9”
Sail Area: 504 sq. ft.
Fuel: 30 US. Gal. *
Water: 70 US. Gal. *
Year Introduced: 1976**
Year Ended: 1985
Designer: Robert H. Perry
Builder: Shing Sheng / Ta Shing

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:21   #441

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
falmouth 30 Cutter

Falmouth 30 Cutter
If you are into a building project... ala the Pardeys... this may be the boat for you.

The designer is responsive.. the plans are low cost.. the boat is a good one...

It has the following specs:.....

Length on deck30 ft 0 in
Beam9 ft 11 in Length waterline28 ft 8 in
Draft5 ft 9 in Displacement18,000 lbs
Ballast6800 lbs Sailing rigGaff cutter
Sail area596 sq. ft Fresh water220 litres
Fuel capacity130 litres Building time5000 hours
Skill levelHigh Price $600 Canadian funds
Design #1096 SheetsAvailable from Paul Gartside Ltd.

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:24   #442

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Cheoy Lee 31

More than likely a project with her wood decks and house... but available for $15K
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Old 11-06-2010, 16:28   #443

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
First Aid Kits

Originally Posted by TOM View Post
No nor does it come with it's own nurse. I will list the contents of our first aid kit for your benefit and other members of the forum. Perhaps after reading it you may be able to offer some advise on what I could omit so as to reduce the cost.

The following list was built using my own research and advise from a doctor who has circumnavigated with his wife and two children. It is as follows:

Amoxicillian (broad spectrum antibiotic 48 tables)
Doxycyclin Hydrochloride (Malaria prevention 150 tablets)
Lomotil (loose bowels 20 tablets)
Sudafed (Nasal Decongestant 24 tablets)
Chlorsig (1% eye ointment antibiotic 4gs)
Panadene Forte (severe pain 40 tablets)
Keflex Pulvures (staph infections 1000mg capsules 40 tablets)
Silvazine Cream (for burns 50gms)
LPV 500ml Capsules (for tonsilitis 50 tablets)
Amoxil capsules 500mg (ear infections)
Junior Melorine (child malaria tablets) 100 capsules
Endone (very severe pain) 20 capsules)
Bactrim (urinary tract infections and coral cuts) 10 tablets
Fenac (pain and inflamation 100 tablets)
Travacalm (sea sickness 10 tablets)
Kwells (sea sickness 10 tablets)
Nurofen (Pain relief)
Gastrolyte (prevent dehydration in case of stomach infection)
EDP antiseptic first aid powder
Savlon antiseptic cream
Child Panadol
Band Aids 60
Medium crepe bandages x 2
Medi swabs
Parafin Gauze dressing
Sterile Gel Burn dressing
Wound tape
Sucher strips
Eye bath
Thermal blanket
Lignocaine injection (local anistetic for around wound before stitching)
Chlorhexidine Irrigation solution (cleaning wounds)
Needles and syringes
Surgical blades

The whole kit fits in roughly three shoe box size boxes. Perhaps there are a few things I may be able to do without, or perhaps not. It would be unfortunate to find ourselves on some remote island in the Louisiades with an inadequate first aid kit just to save a few dollars. I'm not going to go into the cost of each item, sufice to say in y last post that's what I spent and that's what I feel comfortable with to keep me and my family well. After all I am asking them top come and cross oceans with me the least I can do is spend a few extra bucks on the first aid kit.
A very comprehensive Kit

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:30   #444

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Monthly Food Cost....

Regarding a budget of $150 for two people... for food... this is possible in the main
land of the US and in Latin America...

I'll use USVI prices for the things which come to mind....

25# flour $ 12
25# whole wheat flour $ 20
25# rice $ 20
5# beans, lentils, garbaonzos $ 7
5 L canola oil $12
1# Salt $ 1
5# loose tea $ 8
10# potatoes $ 4
10# onions $ 4
9# smoked picnic $12
5# cottage cheese $5
5# sour cream $5
5# whole chicken $6
3# bacon $ 9
5# squash $ 3
5# oranges $ 8
5# apples $ 7
Totals about $150....

To this you must add spices, subtract fish you catch...

There is no liquor, detergent, beer, napkins, matches, etc on this list

Get the Guide to Vegetarian Cooking or the Bean Book for ideas, or a book on
Indian Cuisine.. or Arabic Cuisine... For recipe ideas..

You must make your own pasta, crackers, bread, etc...

The flour and rice will last several months... giving room for yeast and peanuts,
jam... etc.

You must bottle your own meat and fish..

You should add powdered whole milk and powdered eggs to this again using the
funds liberated from the carbohydrates which last several months...

You must get used to lime juice and local gin or rum and chilled water for sundowners...

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:36   #445

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Downeast 32

DownEast 32..

Thanks for mentioning the DownEast 32... at 8 tons, this boat has sufficient displacement to carry the necessities...

Looks like one can be had for $25K...

See the photo, Boat Specifications Moana Polynesian word for “Blue Sea” Make Downeast Yachts Model Downeaster 32 Designer Bob Poole Year 1979 Where Built Santa Monica, CA USA LOD (length on deck) 32 feet LOA (length overall) 35 feet 6 inches
LWL (length waterline) 25 feet 10 inches
Beam (width of boat) 11 feet
Draft (depth in water) 4 feet 9 inches
Ballast 5,500 lbs
Displacement (weight of boat) 17,000 lbs.
Engine 27 hp Westerbeke diesel (new in 2002)
Cruising Speed 5 knots (approx 6 mph)
Max Speed 6 knots (approx 7 mph)
Fuel Tankage 60 gallons
Water Tankage 93 gallons in two tanks
Primary Anchor 35 lbs Delta
Primary Rhode 275' of 5/16 High Test Chain (3,800 lbs breaking strength) Electrical Storage three group 27 (115 amp hr) and one 8D for a total of 565 amp hours
Instruments Two Garmin GPS 76, Raymarine ST50 wind, depth & speed
Cooking Three burner Hillerange propane stove and oven
Refrigeration Isotherm 12 volt with seawater cooling (yes we can make ice cubes) some specs
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Old 11-06-2010, 16:40   #446

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
How to get started...

How to get started....
Lets begin with agreeing that OldJersey has valid points.

The boat must be kept simple....

Skills must be learnt

Food preservation is important

Let's begin with food preservation...

You either buy tins or bottle. Bottling requires a pressure canner... mason jars, rings, and lids. We bottle... beef, chicken, pork, butter, ....

We do not bottle stews, or bean dishes. We use the raw bottled materials in recipes, for flavor... You can buy any of several good books on this method, and we also recommend oven drying too....

Skills... the major skill needed is sailing competency.. and mechanical repair skills..

You must go sailing... in anything that floats.... often.... until it is natural...


Why not begin with the dinghy... you will need one, preferably a hard dink that rows and sails well...

Danny Green's Chameleon Dinghy is a good choice.... Danny originally designed her for himself, and he is a small boat sailor, with limited deck space. Chameleon nests into a package 5'6" long which fits on the smallest cabin top, but when assembled is nearly 11' long, and gives great service.

SV Valhalla scaled Chameleon and I am posting the full set of pages for both dinks.

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:41   #447

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Food for 3 Months Costing $550
We are provisioning for the trip south to the Grenadines... Below is my shopping list...

Three Months Shopping List:

32 cans Tomatoes
32 cans mushrooms
24 cans olives
4 cans coffee
4 pkgs of 100 Tea bags or lge box of loose tea
20 cans of chicken breast
8 cans of crab
30 cans of tuna
3 bottles of peanut butter
3 bottles of jam
9 cans of peaches
3 cans of cherries
dried apricots
40 # rice
20 # brown rice
10 # assorted pasta
6 cases of beer
2 boxes of white wine(5L)
4 1.5 L bottles of red wine
6 bottles of cheap gin
1 bottle of vodka
6 bottles of lemon juice
4 bottles of lime juice
4 bottles of mayonaise
25 # white flour
15 # whole wheat flour
10 # whole oats
5 # corn meal
25 # assorted lentils, split peas, beans
25 L Canola oil
10 # white sugar
5 # brown sugar
5 # dry roasted peanuts
1 bottle molasses
1 bottle honey
baking powder
baking soda
dish washing detergent
laundry powder
scrub pads
20 # tin of crackers
30 tins of roast beef
10 # smoked bacon (slab)
1 smoked picnic
3 whole chickens
3 rump roasts (boneless)
1 boneless leg of lamb
6 kg powdered whole milk
curry powder
red pepper flakes
curry powder
powdered sugar
corn starch
assorted cheeses

All the above was bought today in St. Thomas, VI 00802

Much of this is cheaper in the DR, Venezuela, Colombia, Panama....Mainland USA..

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:42   #448

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Why go on $500 per month???
There are many reasons why you might want to go on a limited budget, let's discuss several...

1. You are young and don't have much money, but have tradesman skills such as welding aluminum and stainless, have your USCG 100 Ton master's license, or are a teacher/fireman/policeman facing layoff or early retirement.

2. You are facing the loss of your family's last job... it is only a matter of time before you can no longer make the house payment of $2500 / month on your dream house gone sour.. Your car, jetskis, skidoos, can be sold and bring about $ 20,000.. If you hang tight, you can probably stay in the house 9 months after you default, saving $22,500.

3. Your retirement pension went south during the last restructuring... Social Security won't cover the expense of your house, but a renter might...

In each of the above cases, it is out of the question to finance a floating condo... yet you need a place to stay.. quickly... the question is what and how...

If you give up on the condo... and look at Annie Hill's book Voyaging on a Small Income... and you have camping experience, some things come to mind...

You don't really need water tanks... gallon milk jugs will do... but if you have water tanks.. get a FynSpray FS80 hand pump.

You don't really need a marine head, a bucket will do... but if you must, get a LAVAC.. I put one in in Papeete in 2000, it came with a henderson Mark 5 diaphragm pump, and it has been very reliable.

You don't need an electric bilge pump, but you do need a good one.. the best is the Edson gallon a stroke diaphragm pump.. I have two, bought in 87, and they have never given a bit of trouble.

You don't need an engine.. a long oar will do... but if you must have one... nanni diesel or the Perkins line of engines have worldwide parts availability..

You do need a sound hull... you need one that requires minimal maintenance, because maintenence costs money.... GRP hulls before 79 did not have osmosis problems, and CE Ryder's boats did not have this problem either... Look very carefully at this, if the boat had problems once, it can to so again... Look very carefully at balsa cored decks... they can be fixed, I know, I did one..

Look carefully at the hull deck joint in GRP hulls... Hal Roth had nothing but trouble there in Whisper...

GRP hulls generally have condensation problems...unless the hull is cored... needed is insulation...

Avoid steel like the plague... unless you like rust streaks...

A sound wood or three skin boat is hard to beat. Aluminum is even better...

Stay with a simple rig... cutter or sloop. If the boat is one with a long production run, chances are you can get a deal on sails at Bacon.. Regardless, if the boat is less than 34 ft. You can download SailCut for free, and get the material from KayoSpruce, and SailRite, and the sewing machine from SailRite and make your own... I made a suit of 5 sails for Pegasus, total cost $3000. and my sail area is 1200 sq ft!!!

Forget chart plotters, RADAR, wind direction indicators, etc... put up a masthead
windex, or a pennant, Get real chart kits, BA pilots, an almanac, the list of radio signals... Learn coast wise navigation, celestial too... By all means get a GPS.. they are so cheap now... there is no excuse to not have one anymore... but plan on looking out the window... and on plotting your position...

See Discounted Nautical Charts, Reproductions, Electronic Charts & Navigational Software | Bellingham Chart Printers for their portfolios of DMA chart copies...

A boat less than 34 ft does not need a windlass either... use a pawl... for a description of one see Hiscock's Voyaging Under Sail..

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:48   #449

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Anchors continued....
Two bowers, one on the roller, the other stowed in the bilge
Two kedges, one in a locker readily accessible from the deck with a rode ready to attach, and the other in the bilge with another rode ready to attach.

The kedges are best danforths... for the weight this type of anchor has the greatest holding power... They will be essential for kedging off in the event of grounding, and must be able to be deployed quickly, from that hard dink I recommended.

For a boat between 30-34 ft LOA displacing 5-8 tons the following sizes of anchors and chain and rode suffice...

Storm Anchor 66# Bruce or fisherman(Paul Luke)

Bower Anchor 44# Bruce

Kedge 24 # Danforth

Chain 3/8" BBB or 5/16 HiTest

Rode 5/8" nylon

Hull, Deck, Rig

The Hull must be sound... if it is not, nothing else matters...

The Deck must be sound if it is not, nothing else matters... Don't be like the couple I knew, who spent lavishly on fancy plaster work and wall coverings for their new house, while neglecting the leak prone roof... Shortly after the interior was complete, it rained, and rained and destroyed the fancy interior...

First you fix the hull, then you fix the deck, then you do whatever is necessary to ensure the two are bonded together with a leak proof joint... Don't be like Hal Roth in Whisper, who suffered major losses from leaks at the hull-deck joint together with sodden bedding, ruined books and charts, not to mention the discomfort, until finally after 2 major cruises, he bonded the deck to the hull with 6 layers of cloth and resin.... inside and out...and solved the problem..

The rig must be sound... since all the boats we are discussing here are over 20 years old, it is virtually certain the standing rigging must be replaced... Call NewFound Metals in Washington State and get a set of bronze sockets in the size appropriate for your boat.. most likely you will want ones with eyes, since you will be using jaw and jaw turnbuckles, and the tangs on the mast likely have been pinned for eye terminations. You will save money by buying all the wire on a roll. See Cruising Rigs and Rigging By Ralph Naranjo for details on fluxing and pouring the molten Zinc into the sockets to secure the 1X19 SS wire.

Once you have dealt with hull, deck, and rig, you can go on to other things...

Lifeline Stanchions.. should be through bolted with backing plates the size of the stanchion bases on the opposite side, and with hardwood blocks between the GRP layers if the deck is sandwiched... On many boats you will have to use a hole saw to cut through the bottom layer to remove the balsa core, and a thick resiin like T88 to bond the hardwood block to the tiop GRP layer and several layers of cloth on the bottom to reseal the whole shebang..

Lifelines... fortget the plastic covering... go with a larger size wire terminate them with eyes so you can use lanyards to connect them to the pulpits, in an adjustable manner.

Mast... look over the step careffully... on boats this old quite often moisture has entered the framing for the step and is soft.. this must be replaced... If the mast heel is in really bad shape, you may have to cut a section off, and adjust the step accordingly.

Mast wiring... if you are on a really tight budget, there won't be any.. Otherwise use 5 conductor to provide wiring for the masthead tricolor, masthead anchor, mid mast steaming, and spreader/deck light, they can have a common ground... Note that the windex has no wiring...

Running rigging... plan on replacing all of it,. and sufficient spare line must be in the locker to replace it later. Use minimum 7/16 for sheets, as that is the minimum size comfortable to the hand for working sails, and lighter stuff for drifters and light air sails...

Boom and gooseneck... examine this carefully and R&R or replace worn out parts.

Sails... go over these carefully, they are your engine... fiz faulty stitching, find used replacements for those beyond salvage...

Cockpit drains... our minimum cruiser will have two or more of these... they must be at least 1.5" in diameter, and clear, and in good condition... fix these before any other plumbing...

Tiller and rudder fittings... check and replace worn parts, buy a spare tiller and ensure it fits the head so replacement at sea is quick and easy. Our minimum cruiser will not have a wheel..

Steering compass... swing it.. make a deviation table... get a copy of Bowditch and learn how it is done...check the wiring for the light, ensure the light works, get a spare lamp for the light, wire this up to a dry cell battery box unless you have house batteries.... our minimum cruiser will not have either engine or house batteries, or house wiring...

Navigation... get a copy of Duttons or Bowditch... learn to take bearings with your hand bearing compass and to plot your position on a chart... practice with your sextant, learn to adjust your sextant... learn to plot sun, moon, planet, and star sights.. This is one of your foundation skills... you must be proficient...

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Old 11-06-2010, 16:50   #450

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Yacht Clubs....
Our respondent has a very valid point... I belonged to the Great Lakes Cruising Club for many years, and recommend anyone cruising the lakes join that wonderful organization...

Yacht clubs were invented to provide yachtsmen with pooled resources so individually they shared the burden of shoreside facilities, and many clubs owned boats available for rent to members. If your cruising is of the vacation variety, or in an area populated by clubs, by all means join one nearby and make friends!!

Even after you leave home waters, your club membership will serve you in good stead... carry your card with you ... many off shore clubs will provice reciprocal privleges, if they know you are a club member, and that includes the club here in St. Thomas...

This is a welcome addition to the information in this thread...

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