Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Gosh, Jim, that's a bit harsh. There was a time when one definition of a moron was a man unwilling to protect his family. Times change, I guess.

Protect your family by taking them somewhere where you think it's necessary to risk imprisonment by having illegal weapons onboard?

Really stupid.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by conachair

Protect your family by taking them somewhere where you think it's necessary to risk imprisonment by having illegal weapons onboard?

Really stupid.

You mean like driving through S. Chicago?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Stormsailor

To begin with , I hope the cruising couple recover from this unusual and just plain wrong act. And much respect to those that assisted them during that ordeal. My wife and I are new and like many others, in that we share the desire to travel to these type places that are relatively close by. There are lots of things we would put on our list of practices and procedures for this type of travel but I will be honest,....plans to fend off young misguided islanders swinging a machete would be somewhere down the list below the procedure for what to do if a great white shark manages to somehow land in the middle of our cockpit interrupting our evening refreshment. We hope that this is not something we need to spend large amounts of time and effort preparing for,..let alone having it even in conversation.

I hope this is an extremely rare occurrence and that just having a standard and somewhat normal awareness of ones surroundings should be just fine and dandy. Security bars make sense at night or while away but that's as far as our minds have gone. I would think something this awful is more than extremely rare and when it does it just gets a lot of attention and resulting chatter that sticks around longer than justified . As far as trying to look un-wealthy ?........wow ,..we got that one took care of easy peasie.

Mark

Be sure you can eliminate having a Great White shark jumping into your cockpit as a possibility or fear you should carry cruising.

Any experienced cruisers had this happen??

Nah I think you can eliminate that fear.

However unauthorised access to your vessel could somehow be just more likely.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Stormsailor

I hope this is an extremely rare occurrence and that just having a standard and somewhat normal awareness of ones surroundings should be just fine and dandy. Security bars make sense at night or while away but that's as far as our minds have gone.

. As far as trying to look un-wealthy ?........wow ,..we got that one took care of easy peasie.

Mark

We had a security meeting from this incident where the cruisers came up with a lot of good thoughts and ideas (I won't post the results here because of the allowance for gun lovers to derail the thread) but if you email me via the contact form on my website (below) I will send you the report.

BTW don't try to look ‘unwealthy' it wouldn't work very well and is just a dent to your discipline and self regard. Many cruisers dress in rags and it doesn't make a man imho.

[SaltyTanned]

Originally Posted by Stormsailor

To begin with , I hope the cruising couple recover from this unusual and just plain wrong act. And much respect to those that assisted them during that ordeal. My wife and I are new and like many others, in that we share the desire to travel to these type places that are relatively close by. There are lots of things we would put on our list of practices and procedures for this type of travel but I will be honest,....plans to fend off young misguided islanders swinging a machete would be somewhere down the list below the procedure for what to do if a great white shark manages to somehow land in the middle of our cockpit interrupting our evening refreshment. We hope that this is not something we need to spend large amounts of time and effort preparing for,..let alone having it even in conversation.

I hope this is an extremely rare occurrence and that just having a standard and somewhat normal awareness of ones surroundings should be just fine and dandy. Security bars make sense at night or while away but that's as far as our minds have gone. I would think something this awful is more than extremely rare and when it does it just gets a lot of attention and resulting chatter that sticks around longer than justified . As far as trying to look un-wealthy ?........wow ,..we got that one took care of easy peasie.

Mark

This armed attack resulting in substantial wounds was not only a rare occurrence it was a first as far as I know for Union. I have been sailing there many times a year since 1996.

The Caribbean is crime ridden but like everywhere else crime resides in pockets. For example the island where many folks I knew were attacked, and in daylight, is Sint Maarten / St-Martin. Be careful there, it is a drug hub and criminals are not of any particular colour.

On the other hand I have witnessed a few yacht fires. Scary. I would not want metal bars and the likes blocking my escape. In the unlikely circumstance you should wake up with some intruder in your cabin I believe it is best to do nothing and loose some belongings rather than risk your life or limbs.

To stay away from the high crime areas, check online and mostly ask locally of other cruisers. Yes crime is a problem but the vast majority of cruisers will not be victims. Lightning is dangerous yet we sail and anchor not expecting to be zapped and mostly we are right.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, earlyduck.

[Paul L]

Here's a blog post on the security meeting with pics and the listed suggestions:
Flying Across the Seas: The Dark Side of Cruising

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Maybe this kind of tripe

So, Mark,
You think the oath of allegiance immigrants to the US take when they receive their citizenship is "tripe?" Do you also feel that way about those who swear allegiance to your country . . . Australia? That's a pretty low blow and one that few on this forum have ever taken. I'm sure you don't represent most Australians in your biased remark- a country and people for which I ,personally, have great respect.

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by rognvald

So, Mark,
You think the oath of allegiance immigrants to the US take when they receive their citizenship is "tripe?" Do you also feel that way about those who swear allegiance to your country . . . Australia? That's a pretty low blow and one that few on this forum have ever taken. I'm sure you don't represent most Australians in your biased remark- a country and people for which I ,personally, have great respect.

I believe the point he was making was that wrapping yourself in the flag doesn't further the conversation in any constructive way.

But this post has gone so far off topic that I don't think it will recover.

[MarkJ]

Not only that I am sugesting that the country it refers to is only one of the 196 countries in the world.

Just ONE of the 196.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Here's a blog post on the security meeting with pics and the listed suggestions:
Flying Across the Seas: The Dark Side of Cruising

Good post!

For those too lazy to read the link here are the items:

• Introduce yourselves to the boats anchored next to you;
• Don't advertise your absence from the boat via VHF radio;
• Don't let anyone on your boat whom you don't trust implicitly;
• Have bright lights on the deck that can be activated from your sleeping area;
• Have a bright spotlight or tactical flashlight to blind people boarding your boat;
• Have a loud horn to alert other cruisers;
• Flare guns can intimidate, but are not terribly effective as a weapon;
• Machetes can be effective self defense tools if you are trained in their use:
• Gel-type tear gas is available on some islands, but probably not legal on other islands;
• Wasp and hornet spray is legal and shoots 40 ft through the air and can blind the attacker;
• Educate yourself on violent behaviors and self-defense techniques; your life may depend on it.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by redsky49

I believe the point he was making was that wrapping yourself in the flag doesn't further the conversation in any constructive way.

But this post has gone so far off topic that I don't think it will recover.

Lots of post do not add in any constructive way. that is the nature of the beast.

There was no wrapping in a flag of any sort. One poster thought to denigrate the US and its politics specifically in regards to the president and gun ownership RE revolt.

That oath which I quoted is in gist all over the place in the US> Oath of enlistment, oath of office, oath of citizenship.

There were 2 points that were lost: first the US is a country of laws codified in the Constitution. The second is that it is every US citizens DUTY to defend the constitution and remove by any means required an unlawful government.

Of course governments break their own laws and sometimes get away with it for a long time before being pulled back to lawfulness. And the US is a stellar example of government far, far away from its principals.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Lots of post do not add in any constructive way. that is the nature of the beast.

There was no wrapping in a flag of any sort. One poster thought to denigrate the US and its politics specifically in regards to the president and gun ownership RE revolt.

That oath which I quoted is in gist all over the place in the US> Oath of enlistment, oath of office, oath of citizenship.

There were 2 points that were lost: first the US is a country of laws codified in the Constitution. The second is that it is every US citizens DUTY to defend the constitution and remove by any means required an unlawful government.

Of course governments break their own laws and sometimes get away with it for a long time before being pulled back to lawfulness. And the US is a stellar example of government far, far away from its principals.

But really, what does this have to do with the subject of this thread.

Posts like the one you refer to, and yours, only serve to dilute the on-topic posts and cause the thread to veer off track.

If you want to hold forth on an unrelated topic, by all means start your own thread.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by redsky49

I believe the point he was making was that wrapping yourself in the flag doesn't further the conversation in any constructive way.

But this post has gone so far off topic that I don't think it will recover.

Redsky,
Perhaps it is best for Mark to speak for himself since he made the remark--a thoughtless, rude and provocative comment at best. As far as the original conversation, it has meandered --as all interesting conversations are prone to do since it is both serious and potentially controversial. Why is it that when these discussions follow the normal path of discourse and occasionally diverge from the main topic that some feel threatened. Is the reason that, for some, it is obviously out of their comfort zone or perhaps the arguments are too difficult to follow when they diverge temporarily from anchoring or sailboat design? And, are some contributors to this Forum "untouchable" and are permitted to say things that are inaccurate or offensive and receive a free pass based upon their personal likeability or the number of their postings? Should not thoughtfulness be exercised before one writes? The strength of Cruisersforum versus other online sailing venues is that it allows intelligent and controversial discourse as long as it follows propriety, decorum and a mannerly approach. This is why its readership and contributors are so impressive. Thanks for the comment and please do not consider my response as anything other than a honest attempt to challenge an inappropriate comment. Good luck and good sailing.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by Hud3

But really, what does this have to do with the subject of this thread.

Posts like the one you refer to, and yours, only serve to dilute the on-topic posts and cause the thread to veer off track.

If you want to hold forth on an unrelated topic, by all means start your own thread.

The reason for this thread was exhausted about 220 posts ago. There are very few on topic posts RE: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island.

You cannot call it beer if you put 200 glasses of water into your 1 glass of beer.

Regards

THe thread became an open conversation on violence to cruisers, how to deal with it.