Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

[Southern Star]

I wouldn't disagree about Porlamar harbour as I have not been there since March of last year. However, to suggest that only 200 boats a year sail off the coast of Venezuela is still ridiculous.

Brad

[Summitfun]

Rabbits? We use a Harris Hawk & a Golden Eagle when rabbit hunting here in New Mexico. No need for guns.
Sorry, couldn't resist....
Mike

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Hi Brad,

Sorry to say but your information is out of date.

There are NO boats anchored in Porlamar since last october when the dutch cruiser was shot dead.

At the time of that murder there was only 19 boats there... All Venezuelan. The Dutch boat was the only international boat in the anchorage. They were targeted for four days and murdered.

Dead.

Venezuela has changed and is now a seriously dangerous place to sail.

The statistics would seem to bear that out alright.

Dave

[Red Sky]

I live near Oakland, California which has the 9th highest murder rate in the US. By near, I mean right next door. On average over 100 people are murdered there every year. If I had to make an educated guess, at least 80% are criminal on criminal, i.e. "gang killings", and that's probably a conservative estimate. Chicago, L.A., New York, Washington D.C., etc. have similar percentages. Cold as it may sound but, "Live by the gun, die by the gun". It rarely affects normal people who aren't involved in that kind of "lifestyle". As close as I live to all of that violence, there was 1 murder in my city last year. In the US it seems to be a economic demographic problem. There is a small, very lawless segment of the American population. If it wasn't firearms, it would be something else. Gang bangers aren't the kind of guys in "West Side Story", they have a business to run and territory to control. As I tell my parents, I have no fear of going to Mexico, I live next to and work in Oakland.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Red Sky

I live near Oakland, California which has the 9th highest murder rate in the US. By near, I mean right next door. On average over 100 people are murdered there every year. If I had to make an educated guess, at least 80% are criminal on criminal, i.e. "gang killings", and that's probably a conservative estimate. Chicago, L.A., New York, Washington D.C., etc. have similar percentages. Cold as it may sound but, "Live by the gun, die by the gun". It rarely affects normal people who aren't involved in that kind of "lifestyle". As close as I live to all of that violence, there was 1 murder in my city last year. In the US it seems to be a economic demographic problem. There is a small, very lawless segment of the American population. If it wasn't firearms, it would be something else. Gang bangers aren't the kind of guys in "West Side Story", they have a business to run and territory to control. As I tell my parents, I have no fear of going to Mexico, I live next to and work in Oakland.

Anticipating the howls of racism from the those whose views on this subject are based on a complete lack of knowledge on the subject, I have to agree with what you intimate. If you look at murder statistics in the U.S., the homicide rate among African American is 17 per 100,000, while among non African Americans, it is 2.6 per 100,000, which makes it not much different from Scotland. The difference, of course, is that Scotland confiscated firearms used for self defense, while in the US, if the anti-American crowd hereabouts is to be believed, every man, woman and dog is still armed to the teeth, protected by a Constitution.

So, as you I think you are suggesting, murder is a function of social dynamics. The UK had a low murder rate before they removed their citizens ability to be something other than sheep in the face of personal threat, and they have a low murder rate after that action. Just like America has a low murder rate, especially so if you eliminate gang related violence from the statistics. The difference is that many Americans are capable of doing something other than watching helplessly as a soldier get butchered on a public street with a meat cleaver. I guess it's just a case of different strokes for different folks....but if you want to make the case for gun control and limiting the ability of citizens to defend their persons and property, you are going to have to come up with some different facts, because the ones that exist in the real world don't favor your argument.

[sailpower]

Uh, Oh, what color where those rabbits?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by sailpower

Uh, Oh, what color where those rabbits?

My understanding is that most are white with a black border and a black "X" on their sides.

[Red Sky]

I purposely tried not to make it a racial issue because it involves all races. It may be unique to the US, but there are scumbags of all colors here, but as my previous post stated, it's a VERY SMALL percentage of the total population.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by Red Sky

I purposely tried not to make it a racial issue because it involves all races. It may be unique to the US, but there are scumbags of all colors here, but as my previous post stated, it's a VERY SMALL percentage of the total population.

Sorry for the rabbit joke. Your post was clear.

Your points were well taken and, I believe, accurate.

However, I don't think this discussion will stay open much longer. Lots of people here don't want to talk about guns and crime as the conversation eventually turns emotional.

[Red Sky]

Thanks Sailpower :Respect: