VAT, EU, British, Non Res.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by ErikFinn

What's that about the year 1994??
VAT does not apply to boats built before 1994??

boats that were in use,and in an EU state before march 94 were deemed vat paid,or something to that effect,a marina or boatyard bill pre 94 in the EU for the vessel was considered sufficient proof.

this would not apply to boats of any age coming from outside the EU,but may apply to new EU member states who joined after after 94,where the boat was built and in use before 94 in that country.

[davedindubai]

Hi all, UPDATE:

Yesterday I received our 18 month temporary admission (temporary importation) visa so I wanted to share how it all went. First I’d like to state, this is only how I have experienced one customs office and this can’t be relied upon for everywhere.

I didn’t want to jinx anything so waited until now to share exactly how I’ve gone about ‘avoiding’ the vat on our boat. I use the word avoiding in jest really as there is no reason why I should be paying it so why would I want to.

Here’s a recap on our old circumstances:
U.K. registered vessel
Non EU resident owner
New boat exported to Caribbean
No VAT paid.

As I stated earlier we found ourselves in a situation where we wanted to return to the Med which under the British flag would mean VAT is payable upon entry to the EU. In our case this would have been Portugal so a quick detour had to be made to Gibraltar and while the boat was in Gib I re-registered it.

We already had a company set up in Delaware, USA so this was the easiest and cheapest way for us to do it. Caymans, Bahamas, BVI etc all cost around £1,500 per year for a local agent to look after your registration. BVI also takes around 2 months to process. Delaware cost $1,000 for 3 years Reg including $400 for the radio licence and postage of docs to the U.K.

I had to remove SAII from the small ships register in the U.K. which is as simple as sending the MCA an email and it’s done within a couple of days and then also cancel the U.K. radio licence with OFcom Spectrum Licencing.

A new registration means a new MMSI number and call sign which were assigned once we got our new radio licence from the FCC in the states. This was an easy process which our agent in the states handled included in the $1000. I used DelReg.com and a guy called Paul Litsakis who was very helpful.

Once the new reg is in place, I had to reprogram the B&G AIS and the VHF with the new MMSI number. I got the dealer in Gib to do both for me at a cost of £70, it takes 30 mins.

All that’s left to do after that is change the stickers on the boat and fly a nice Stars and Stripes ensign.

We then sailed from Gib to Cartagena, Spain to clear in to the EU for the first time. This was VERY interesting!

We arrived late on a Friday evening and the Capitanerie sends our arrival details to the local police but as customs and immigration were closed I cycled down first thing on Saturday. Of course both are closed. I tried again on Monday morning and was told by the port customs that as I’m British “everything is fine”. Another customs official told me that duty is payable on the boat after 90 days, another stated that my personal income is taxable in Spain after I become ‘resident’ after 90 days stay. The point is, I knew considerably more about our legal position than any of the customs officers here. I considered rolling with what they had said, as I had done my part, but I knew I would just be delaying the inevitable and potentially causing a major headache with some snotty customs guy down the road. All the Spanish guys at Cartagena port couldn’t have been more helpful or friendly. So I cleared immigration which is also at the port and made further enquiries.

The YPC marina office said I should visit the Aduana in town. This is the government customs building and only a 5 minute cycle from the marina behind the town hall (its actually closer than the port customs). My Spanish isn’t good so I typed what I needed into google translate and eventually I got my message across. Literally 5 minutes later and I had a piece of paper with a stamp on it and “18 months”. They didn’t ask to visit the vessel, didn’t ask to see any of my paperwork or proof of my residency status. I was obviously prepared with everything but it’s still a worry.

So now I’ve got until Feb 2020 which is perfect as we plan to cross the Atlantic again that Jan.

[atoll]

that was pretty much my experince in cyprus,once i presented them with a south african premernant residents visa,only they gave me a 6 month TIP,which i was able to renew by email twice.
at the end of the day all these guys are,are tax collectors,governed by bits of paper with rules printed on it,trick is to have the right bit of paper with evidence that their rules don't apply to you!

thanks for the update
ps don't misplace any of those bits of paper untill you finally dispose of the boat,those guys love a paper trail

[Hartings]

On a similar theme (ps pleased it all worked out for Dave)

We are contemplating buying a new boat from a Sth African builder with delivery end 2020. Ideally the plan would be to sail from Cape Town to the Med for a season and then take the boat West to Carribs and then onward to the Pacific. I am UK resident. My wife has a USA passport but is also currently UK resident (though not working) and applying for dual citizenship which is likely to become available to her within the next 12 months. She still has a property in USA in her name.

If we bought the boat in her name can we avail ourselves of the Yacht Temporary Importation legislation giving us up to 18 mos cruising the Med without incurring VAT liability ? Either before or after she obtains her EU passport ?

Similarly even after she gets dual citizenship can she use her USA passport and USA address upon first port of call into the EU to clear customs as evidence of her non-EU status ?

Fully appreciate I need proper legal advice but just seeking some input from this forum.

I appreciate potential Brexit is likely to have some effect on this too.

[davedindubai]

I can answer this based on my experience but this will not necessarily be the legal answer. How's that for swerving responsibility?

Officially, NO. The boat owner is EU resident so you're not entitled to the TA.

However, as long as you can satisfy the customs official in front of you when you apply for the TA, then that's good enough.

I have a british passport but used a pay slip showing foreign (non EU) earnings, title deed for a non EU property, utility bill for foreign property in my name, letter from my accountant stating non residence status.

I was somewhat nervous and had all my ducks in a row then was not asked for a single piece of evidence by customs in Cartagena which was our first port of call.

Despite Spain being so awesome and not hesitating to issue the TA, when we arrived in Greece the customs official wanted all the proof for themselves and seemed very reluctant to honour the TA that had been in effect for the last 6 months with no issue. Greece wants our VAT! I even had to leave them my Dubai mobile phone number which thank god he didn't call my bluff and call!

The moral being... be very careful.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I can answer this based on my experience but this will not necessarily be the legal answer. How's that for swerving responsibility?

Officially, NO. The boat owner is EU resident so you're not entitled to the TA.

However, as long as you can satisfy the customs official in front of you when you apply for the TA, then that's good enough.

I have a british passport but used a pay slip showing foreign (non EU) earnings, title deed for a non EU property, utility bill for foreign property in my name, letter from my accountant stating non residence status.

I was somewhat nervous and had all my ducks in a row then was not asked for a single piece of evidence by customs in Cartagena which was our first port of call.

Despite Spain being so awesome and not hesitating to issue the TA, when we arrived in Greece the customs official wanted all the proof for themselves and seemed very reluctant to honour the TA that had been in effect for the last 6 months with no issue. Greece wants our VAT! I even had to leave them my Dubai mobile phone number which thank god he didn't call my bluff and call!

The moral being... be very careful.

The moral being pay the taxes that are due.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by Hartings

On a similar theme (ps pleased it all worked out for Dave)

We are contemplating buying a new boat from a Sth African builder with delivery end 2020. Ideally the plan would be to sail from Cape Town to the Med for a season and then take the boat West to Carribs and then onward to the Pacific. I am UK resident. My wife has a USA passport but is also currently UK resident (though not working) and applying for dual citizenship which is likely to become available to her within the next 12 months. She still has a property in USA in her name.

If we bought the boat in her name can we avail ourselves of the Yacht Temporary Importation legislation giving us up to 18 mos cruising the Med without incurring VAT liability ? Either before or after she obtains her EU passport ?

Similarly even after she gets dual citizenship can she use her USA passport and USA address upon first port of call into the EU to clear customs as evidence of her non-EU status ?

Fully appreciate I need proper legal advice but just seeking some input from this forum.

I appreciate potential Brexit is likely to have some effect on this too.

It is my understanding that residency, not citizenship, is important.

You should contact an attorney knowledgeable in these matters.

[Hartings]

The tax is not due as we are not importing the goods - have a truly lovely day

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I can answer this based on my experience but this will not necessarily be the legal answer. How's that for swerving responsibility?

Officially, NO. The boat owner is EU resident so you're not entitled to the TA.

However, as long as you can satisfy the customs official in front of you when you apply for the TA, then that's good enough.

I have a british passport but used a pay slip showing foreign (non EU) earnings, title deed for a non EU property, utility bill for foreign property in my name, letter from my accountant stating non residence status.

I was somewhat nervous and had all my ducks in a row then was not asked for a single piece of evidence by customs in Cartagena which was our first port of call.

Despite Spain being so awesome and not hesitating to issue the TA, when we arrived in Greece the customs official wanted all the proof for themselves and seemed very reluctant to honour the TA that had been in effect for the last 6 months with no issue. Greece wants our VAT! I even had to leave them my Dubai mobile phone number which thank god he didn't call my bluff and call!

The moral being... be very careful.

Thank you very much - I note the ‘swerve’ and don’t blame you at all for that. It’s good to hear from someone with first-hand experience. I guess if Brexit goes ahead then the issue should fall away.

[atlantical]

I have just paid the vat on my boat which I imported from the USA. I believe, that it's down to the owners nationality. If you are an EEC citizen, you don't get the eighteen months of no vat, you have to pay the vat in the first EEC port you arrive at. If you are a non EEC citizen, you get eighteen months. The boat is put on your visa for the eu

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by atlantical

I have just paid the vat on my boat which I imported from the USA. I believe, that it's down to the owners nationality. If you are an EEC citizen, you don't get the eighteen months of no vat, you have to pay the vat in the first EEC port you arrive at. If you are a non EEC citizen, you get eighteen months. The boat is put on your visa for the eu

Hi Atlantical - thanks for the response. I think it’s residency rather than nationality that counts. My wife holds a US passport which makes things a little more interesting. If you only want to cruise in the Med for a season (as we do) then Brexit would take care of the VAT issue. Sadly though, Brexit exchange rate repercussions have meant we need to put the boat buying on hold for the time being.......

[Hawkeye118]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I can answer this based on my experience but this will not necessarily be the legal answer. How's that for swerving responsibility?

Officially, NO. The boat owner is EU resident so you're not entitled to the TA.

However, as long as you can satisfy the customs official in front of you when you apply for the TA, then that's good enough.

I have a british passport but used a pay slip showing foreign (non EU) earnings, title deed for a non EU property, utility bill for foreign property in my name, letter from my accountant stating non residence status.

I was somewhat nervous and had all my ducks in a row then was not asked for a single piece of evidence by customs in Cartagena which was our first port of call.

Despite Spain being so awesome and not hesitating to issue the TA, when we arrived in Greece the customs official wanted all the proof for themselves and seemed very reluctant to honour the TA that had been in effect for the last 6 months with no issue. Greece wants our VAT! I even had to leave them my Dubai mobile phone number which thank god he didn't call my bluff and call!

The moral being... be very careful.

All the way through the thread is reference to 'TA', excuse my ignorance, but what is 'TA'? Thanks in advance.

[davedindubai]

Temporary Admission.
18 months for a non EU boat with a non EU owner.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

Temporary Admission.
18 months for a non EU boat with a non EU owner.

CORRECTION:

Temporary Admission.
18 months for a non EU boat with a non EU-resident owner.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

Temporary Admission.
18 months for a non EU boat with a non EU owner.

Could be us in a months time.