A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

[Kenomac]

In Spain we always checked in via marinas in Cartegena, Palma, Mahon, etc. In Italy the same via shipyard/agent or marinas, but the past two times in Italy checking in and out was done via the Coast Guard.

[Prairie Chicken]

Ccannan, it is definitely The Islander, Sept issue no. 229, pages 40 & 41. I have both Sep & Oct here. Or try googling Network Marine Consultants. Perhaps you can find it by googling both.


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[ccannan]

Kenomac-Again, so I understand you haven't had any first hand experience dealing with Spanish "customs" or "immigration" officials while clearing into Spain from a country outside EU VAT jurisdiction and you either employed agents or cleared in with marina staff? Is that correct?

[Prairie Chicken]

They now go by the name Network Marine Consultants, according to the magazine article & their web page. I believe the Network Group was their old name, or a local term.


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[ccannan]

Prairie Chicken-I finally found the article. It was hard, not easy, but persistence pays off. The Islander.net website was conspicuously missing the electronic version of the September 2016 (and September 2015) issue(s). A Google site search of The Islander for Network Group got me nothing, because the name of the Network Group is now Network Marine Consultants. A Google site search of The Islander for Network Marine Consultants doesn't reveal the article either. A Google site search of Network Marine Consultants didn't reveal the article. After 7 email exchanges with the editor of the Islander I got the article, and am attaching it so all can read!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Kenomac-Again, so I understand you haven't had any first hand experience dealing with Spanish "customs" or "immigration" officials while clearing into Spain from a country outside EU VAT jurisdiction and you either employed agents or cleared in with marina staff? Is that correct?

Yes I have. But now your inability to understand the written word is just irritating me. Please figure it out for yourself from now on.

My patience with you has run out.

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

YES we have first hand recent experience with VAT issues, I deal with these issues every year.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We have had agents take care of things four times, twice in Spain and twice in Italy. I've also taken care of customs issues myself at least eight times, including purchasing large items for export from VAT zones.

Originally Posted by ccannan

Would you be willing to share your experiences (in detail) when you entered Spain from a country outside EU VAT jurisdiction and didn't employ agents? Specifically, I'm interested in the names of the ports, the names of the Spanish entities (not just "customs" or "immigration") with which you dealt. Were they co-located, etc...

Originally Posted by Kenomac

In Spain we always checked in via marinas in Cartegena, Palma, Mahon, etc.

I'm not sure what is being lost in translation, but to be sure the feeling of irritation, and loss of patience is mutual.

Also, in case you forgot, and unless I'm misinformed, the CF is about sharing information so we don't each have to reinvent the wheel.

While you may ask me or others to figure things out for myself you certainly don't have any authority to enforce it, so you might want to think about climbing down off that high horse you think you are on.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ccannan

I'm not sure what is being lost in translation, but to be sure the feeling of irritation, and loss of patience is mutual.

Also, in case you forgot, and unless I'm misinformed, the CF is about sharing information so we don't each have to reinvent the wheel.

While you may ask me or others to figure things out for myself you certainly don't have any authority to enforce it, so you might want to think about climbinjg down off that high horse you think you are on.

Please don't waste your time asking me any more questions.

... "Have a Nice Day!"

[goat]

I feel the love.

Sent from a boat somewhere

[weavis]

TO be fair, and in the main Im a pretty tolerant person, and this is only my opinion, ccannan you are being pedantic to the nth degree, I even found myself wondering why you are not reading the answers.

You had your answer. Can you use Gib to exit? YES.

The minutae of where why and how is for you to find out, Kenomac gave you enough information based on his several years of doing the Med to shortcut the process.

The information Is there.

Here is my observation as a British sailor (Non Schengen) in European waters. As with all things internet, you do not have to take the advice. There are no guarantees in life. I can concur with kenomacs experience and even used different ports to enter and leave. The method is the same.

The law is the law and should be evenly spread There will be variations from office to office in European countries but quick phone calls to superiors sort that out. It works for Spain and Italy (in my experience, and that is all you will get is PERSONAL experience). Not getting the answers you want above what has been stated? Then we cannot help you further. Go ask officials of the countries involved for their laws and sort if from there.

I to am failing to see what you dont understand. The bottom line is that for many of us, following the basic same broad principles and actions that have been outlined have allowed vessels to follow the law in using Gib as the exit hub.

Dont want to 'risk' the VAT on your boat? Here is the advice you need to follow. YOUR experience in using other countries and success in doing so would suggest you continue using those countries. Its as simple as that. For us the clearance in Gib is enough.

Seriously, the answer is YES, in our experience Gib can be used to clear, but not for every country in Europe and has worked in the manner outlined in this thread. Labouring the point is not going to get your boat cleared until you bite the bullet and do it or choose not to do it.

I suggest you do not use Gib. Your apparent need for assurances on every level cannot be met by our experience.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

YES we have first hand recent experience with VAT issues, I deal with these issues every year.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We have had agents take care of things four times, twice in Spain and twice in Italy. I've also taken care of customs issues myself at least eight times, including purchasing large items for export from VAT zones.

Originally Posted by ccannan

Would you be willing to share your experiences (in detail) when you entered Spain from a country outside EU VAT jurisdiction and didn't employ agents? Specifically, I'm interested in the names of the ports, the names of the Spanish entities (not just "customs" or "immigration") with which you dealt. Were they co-located, etc...

Originally Posted by Kenomac

In Spain we always checked in via marinas in Cartegena, Palma, Mahon, etc.

I'm not sure what is being lost in translation, but to be sure the feeling of irritation, and loss of patience is mutual.

Also, in case you forgot, and unless I'm misinformed, the CF is about sharing information so we don't each have to reinvent the wheel.

While you may ask me or others to figure things out for myself you certainly don't have any authority to enforce it, so you might want to think about climbing down off that high horse you think you are on.

[boatman61]

Marina's in Europe are the normal check in procedure these days as they are linked into a central computer base with C&I so all new entries are logged/noted by the Governmental authorities.
That being said however you may in some countries.. France and Portugal to name two.. in spite of this run foul of C&I..
One incident such as this has been discussed on CF in the past, a US catamaran that thought it could 'reboot' in the Channel Isles who share the same Schengen/VAT status as Gib.. only to find when they got down to Porto they found they did not meet the 'Letter of the VAT Law' and were visited by C&I after clearing in at the marina.
They then foolishly tried to do a runner after dark only to be chased, caught and escorted back to port and the vessel impounded.
The end result I do not know.
Spain is a funny place and in my experience one's reception depends on individuals in each port.. depending on the political atmosphere regarding Gib and the local guys strength of feelings.. the Brexit may.. or may not antagonise the harmony if the word goes out to boycott all things Gibraltar..
However in the end its down to each person to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by boatman61

However in the end its down to each person to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly. [/SIZE][/FONT]

One tip, find out who won the football, if they did - be sure to mention it to the official you're dealing with

[Kenomac]

Another tip:

Don't arrive with an attitude.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Another tip:

Don't arrive with an attitude.

Or if possible, not after someone with attitude. And be like a victorian child, smile a lot and only speak when spoken to

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by conachair

Or if possible, not after someone with attitude. And be like a victorian child, smile a lot and only speak when spoken to

Local sports knowledge is huge. It only takes the local officials a moment to detect attitude and act accordingly. Some folks we know have trouble wherever they go, and others like us... Never an issue. A friendly smile, small talk and a handshake make a big difference.

One line we use, and we say it because we mean it "it's so nice to be back here in....., you have such a beautiful country."