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Old 23-08-2004, 07:15   #1
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Removable Stay(sail) or not to stay...

Hi Guys-

We have a CSY 33 cutter rig and the bloke that owner it before us dismantled and subsequently lost parts to the club footed boom for the staysail. We have a furler on the foresail with an abbreviated (cut down) 130%.

The CSY does fine in 10+ knots of wind. In light winds see suffers. I was thinking of getting a new 130 or even 150 for the foresail and installing a removable stay for the staysail for heavy weather sailing and getting a hank on storm sail and maybe a #4 for the staysail.

In heavy weather- the genny comes down and the storm sails come on- reefing a furling sail increases weather helm by pushing the bow down. Moving the sail back helps center the load and reduce the weather helm.

In light winds the #4 can go on when running- the only benefit I see is wing on wing or else the staysail cripples the genny.

I know CSY Man has a furler on his staysail- but it would be nice to reclaim the deck area when not in use.

THoughts on this??

jcmcdowell, s/v Whisky Charlie
CSY 33
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Old 23-08-2004, 07:29   #2
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4 Knot rule

We started out sailing /w a 2 knot rule. Less than 2 kts under sail alone, and we started the iron genny.
As we got older, this became a 4 knot rule.
Hence: <10 Kts wind-speed is motor-sailing conditions.

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Old 23-08-2004, 07:32   #3
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Sailing rules

We also add a temperature rule which is going up. 5c is the coldest. BC Mike C
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Old 23-08-2004, 11:41   #4
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Does your 5 degree rule mean that when temp gets that cold, you move south, or is that the time you turn on your heating. Personnally my 4kw heater goes on a lot earlier than that, and makes things nice and warm inside the boat. One outlet can be directed at the person on the helm inside the wheelhouse, so allowing a sense o f humour to nbe maintained even in bad weather! Just as well in UK with the summer we are having
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Old 23-08-2004, 13:07   #5
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we have a staysail boom

that was set up for furling. I have it and the gooseneck if you are interested.


toolowd AT aol DOT com
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Old 23-08-2004, 19:20   #6
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Re Talbot post. We do not have a heater but I have considered a diesel unit. They are about $1500- Canadian. We have one long race in November that we do each year and sometimes it is only a couple of degrees. Being outside and steering for a few hours tends to slowly cool you off, so I switch for a while and that helps. If we were cruising in that temperature I would not have to steer for so long and could go below or hide behind a dodger. Being in fresh water I drain the engine every time we use it from October to late March. Some years we do not use the boat at all during December January and February. I have been out in the North Sea in January on cousins fishing boat and in lousy weather. BC Mike C
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Old 24-08-2004, 08:08   #7
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To get back to the first question, yes, your idea will work, but don't sell that staysail short. We use ours probably 75% of the time. Going to weather it gives us at least another kt, more with more wind. Then when the wind gets too much for the yankee jib to handle well we just roll it up and go with main and staysail. Next comes a reef in the main - and under this setup the boat balances beautifully and track as though on rails. When things get too heavy for that we pop a second reef in the main and she still handles well. If things get too heavy for that setup (it'd have to be well over 30kt) we crank up the Perkins and usually
say to heck with it and look for a place to park!
Yes, your idea of setting the staysail up on a removable stay will work, but I think you'll find that you use it a lot more than you anticipate - depending, of course, on the average winds where you sail - so you may want to set it up on a regular inner stay instead.
BTW - we are still using our little club boom and a hank on sail, but I plan to put a roller furler on it soon.
As to those of you who have heaters and such - egad ... not my kind of sailing weather. mon. In de Islans de tempature neva get undah 80f cept in de night time, and den we haf ta put on a T-shirt. Come on down de Islans, mon ... it doan snow in de Islans!
s/v La Nostra
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Located in the Sunny Caribbean
"Life's short ... Eat dessert first!"
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Old 25-08-2004, 17:55   #8
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egad- staysail furler...

I know CSY Man swears by the furler on the staysail. He put heavier cloth on it so he could use it for a storm sail as well.

I guess we'll try the hank ons with the fixed stay for awhile- It's only a pain if you tack. I never did like land anyways.

I'm with you on the weather- if I have to wear a long sleeve anything other than to avoid skin cancer I'm not real happy.

jcmdowell s/v Whisky Charlie
(landlocked in Atlanta)
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Old 27-08-2004, 14:30   #9
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My CSY 33 still has the club foot. I like it pretty much.

My main is a bit bigger than most 33's and I use a high yankee for a jib. How the rest of your sails are set up matter too. The staysail is nice because it is self tending with the club foot. I just set the stops for each tack one time and I'm good for tacking all day. The staysail is so small that it's nothing to handle. I don't feel the need to have it furling. So long as it's good enough waether to move about the deck it's the easiest sail to take down when the need arrises. A couple sail ties and she is secured. You pull in the sheet and it centers on deck. On CSY 33 this is not a difficult sail in any condition to handle.

It's a nice small sail when you want a bit more of headsail such as going to weather. Harry says his gets a kt mine maybe hgets a bit less (smaller boat and sail).

I can see the case to have a furler though too. It's a bit easier for securing a dinghy to have the foredeck space to do it there.

You learn to take advantage of all the advatages you have and learn to compensate for the weaknesses. All good skipper would. Once you've done that as best you can there is not much else. so maybe the point is moot.
Paul Blais
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Old 17-09-2018, 20:53   #10
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Re: Removable Stay(sail) or not to stay...

Had a removable inner forestay on my C&C 38, it was perfect. Most days I could use the 150 on the roller furling up to about 17 knots, above that I reefed the main and partially furled the head sail. Or I could dowse the main and sail on the headsail up to about 20 knots.
Having the removable inner forestay made tacking the 150 much more convenient, in the real heavy stuff I could use a third reef on the main and a storm jib on the inner forestay, above 30 it was just the storm jib on the forestay. That was on a 15,000 lb racer/cruiser, these days that boat would be considered a cruiser/ racer. But handled itself well in challenging conditions, and comfortable to boot.
My current boat is a 47' center cockpit performance cruiser, but at 40,000 lbs with full tanks is no lightweight, it too has a removable inner forestay. This allows me to tack and control the 140% headsail easily during 75% of the conditions we encounter, it also allows me to install the forestay and fly a yankee with the headsail in moderate reaching condition when we're not tacking much. It also allows me to fly a storm jib in heavier conditions when the head sail is rolled up. Both sails on the inner forestay are hanked on.
Otherwise, with a fixed inner forestay and any headsail over 100% you have to furl in the head sail and then unfurl it anytime you want to tack. It all depends on what type of sailing you want to do and where your sailing, but if I've learned anything on my sailing experience it always seems to be heading into the wind no matter where I'm going, even in places known for their reaching conditions. How many times have I heard someone say "boy, it never blows that way around here", it must just be my luck in life.
On my current boat it does require running backstays to help offset the mast loads of the inner forestay when installed, but I find that a minor hindrance, due to the fact that in most circumstances when using the inner forestay we're not in a tacking duel but running on pretty long sustained courses, either off wind or in heavier wind. I like the flexibility this changeable cutter rig allows.
The running backstays have also allowed me to better control mast pumping even when the inner forestay wasn't in use.
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Old 18-09-2018, 12:26   #11
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Re: Removable Stay(sail) or not to stay...

I would defiantly put the staysail club boom back on and attach the staysail with a pelican hook at the tack . I would also go with a true yankee on Westsails they came up with what they called a super yankee . Also for light air you need a drifter . Cool boat that CSY 33 is .
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Old 30-09-2018, 15:10   #12
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Re: Removable Stay(sail) or not to stay...

I agree with the versatility added by a staysail on a detachable inner forestay. If the mast and deck connections are there already the cost should be reasonable. I found it easy to pick up inexpensive used 8oz dacron hank-on jibsails to use, one as a routine staysail and a much smaller jib for use a storm staysail.
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