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SalingSue · 02-10-2020, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Blathering on about crime, jail and prison guards is a false storyline and just an emotional plea that at best they will blow off. At worst, effectively calling them names and nasty things will turn them against you. From a PR standpoint, they can enforce the rules with draconian effect and no one is going to challenge them in the name of saving Aussies from the "Rona".
.

This is scary.

There is a reason most civilized worlds protect free speech, because speaking out about humans rights abuses is the first step in fixing them, and hopefully these issue can be fixed/pressured by enough voices speaking out loudly about these violations.

And how is it false, there are videos after videos of these abuses.

Telling others to not speak out is paramount to support for a side that logically or morally can’t be supported. If something can’t stand up to free speech that’s not a good sign.

daletournier · 02-10-2020, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalingSue

This is scary.

There is a reason most civilized worlds protect free speech, because speaking out about humans rights abuses is the first step in fixing them, and hopefully these issue can be fixed/pressured by enough voices speaking out loudly about these violations.

And how is it false, there are videos after videos of these abuses.

Telling others to not speak out is paramount to support for a side that logically or morally can’t be supported. If something can’t stand up to free speech that’s not a good sign.

Bruce, my "you dont understand" reply wasnt about my situation. I was making reference to the comment " people should return to their home ports"....that just isnt possible for many. There are people from all parts of the world stuck in the Pacific with no place to leave the boat and no way to sail non stop home to Europe or Africa etc, it's just not that simple.

daletournier · 02-10-2020, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalingSue

This is scary.

There is a reason most civilized worlds protect free speech, because speaking out about humans rights abuses is the first step in fixing them, and hopefully these issue can be fixed/pressured by enough voices speaking out loudly about these violations.

And how is it false, there are videos after videos of these abuses.

Telling others to not speak out is paramount to support for a side that logically or morally can’t be supported. If something can’t stand up to free speech that’s not a good sign.

Sue, I 100% agree. Free speech is extremely important, in fact it's ones duty to voice ones concerns. I have never considered myself a civil libertarian BUT this situation has been very eye opening to me. I grew up in Australia naively believing I have rights, I never once considered that Australia dosent have a bill of rights, which means I have no rights. When one is scared to speak due to risk of angering authorities then you have a problem.

This is a very slippery slope we are currently on.

**GordMay** · 03-10-2020, 01:48

I suppose you’ve also contacted the Australian Human Rights Commission.
➥ https://humanrights.gov.au/about/contact

Unlike most similar liberal democracies, Australia does not have a Federal Bill of Rights. Instead, protections for human rights may be found in the Constitution and in legislation passed by the Commonwealth Parliament or State or Territory Parliaments.
➥ https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/...australian-law

Australian Bill of Rights Bill 2019 (withdrawn March 2020)
➥ https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2019B00171

**GordMay** · 03-10-2020, 02:26

You’re predicament reminded me of Eddie Cochran’s song, “Summertime Blues” (1958)
“... I'm gonna take two weeks
Gonna have a fine vacation
I'm gonna take my problem
To the United Nations ...”
➥

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hks45WVECJo

If a person in Australia has exhausted all options for having their complaint heard, and has been unable to obtain a remedy for a human rights breach, he or she can sometimes take their complaint to a United Nations committee.
➥ https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/...008#Heading137

Australia is a party to the the United Nations’ seven major human rights treaties. Australia was also one of eight nations involved in drafting the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (1948).
➥ https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/...n-human-rights
➥ https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-pro...ights-scrutiny

valhalla360 · 03-10-2020, 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattzilla

Why should you have to pay for quarantine at some place that we have seen a lot of outbreaks occurring (Victorian quarantine hotel situation failings for example) and a place that is going to be a higher risk (due to more people around and potentially infected in close proximity, handling your food etc) when you already have a suitable place (home, yacht etc in Australia) that you can isolate at???

Quarantine isn't to protect those arriving but the local population already in place (and as a new arrival the OP doesn't qualify as local population until he has cleared quarantine)

So it's quite logical that if there are outbreaks, you want them isolated in the quarantine space where you have control of the situation.

Allowing people to quarantine in random locations makes little sense as it's near impossible to ensure that individuals don't break quarantine...or are you suggesting arriving boats should pay for 24/7 survielance by authorized personnel ...if you think the hotel quarantine is expensive expect it to be several times higher to have 3-4 guys full time with food and housing for them covered.

valhalla360 · 03-10-2020, 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalingSue

This is scary.

There is a reason most civilized worlds protect free speech, because speaking out about humans rights abuses is the first step in fixing them, and hopefully these issue can be fixed/pressured by enough voices speaking out loudly about these violations.

And how is it false, there are videos after videos of these abuses.

Telling others to not speak out is paramount to support for a side that logically or morally can’t be supported. If something can’t stand up to free speech that’s not a good sign.

First, this is more of a paperwork and process issue as opposed to a human rights issue. Going on about free speech and human rights is just silly. No one is saying he can't complain. He's free to do so and as far as I know, there is no laws in Australia that he would run afoul of complaining to his hearts content.

But the OP's goal was how to get home without what he sees as an unreasonable and expensive quarantine. If you want to influence people, being argumentative and insulting towards the people can approve or deny his request is rarely a good idea.

The smart approach is not to tick off the people who hold the power until after you clear quarantine. Then when you no longer are in their power, you can go bat cr ap crazy about how evil and stupid they are.

daletournier · 03-10-2020, 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

First, this is more of a paperwork and process issue as opposed to a human rights issue. Going on about free speech and human rights is just silly. No one is saying he can't complain. He's free to do so and as far as I know, there is no laws in Australia that he would run afoul of complaining to his hearts content.

But the OP's goal was how to get home without what he sees as an unreasonable and expensive quarantine. If you want to influence people, being argumentative and insulting towards the people can approve or deny his request is rarely a good idea.

The smart approach is not to tick off the people who hold the power until after you clear quarantine. Then when you no longer are in their power, you can go bat cr ap crazy about how evil and stupid they are.

Get a grip mate, who's saying they're evil and stupid? your fully exaggerating, please dont make things up.

One more thing, your assuming the quarantine that I'm currently in is protecting the public more so than the quarantine my friends are doing on their boat yet you know absolutely nothing about the environment I or they are in.....you'd be surprised who is more isolated.

Also I'm not disputing on this thread should I be doing quarantine or not ,Im pointing out that there should be consistency, not a rule for one and not another.

If you were in this situation you are entitled to handle it anyway way you wish BUT your not, I am and I'm more than entitled to voice an opinion and point out what I believe to be blatant inconsistency regarding the handling of quarantine.

NevilleCat · 03-10-2020, 05:53

Put your feet up.
Like the rest of us (in Vic at least) who have been stuck at home and not able to work since June.
Chill out. We hear your complaint but you aren't going to get a solution on this forum.
It turns into another "my Rights"..."the Govt is prepared to destroy the economy and negate their chances in the next election to somehow control us" "if you are compliant you are sheeple" etc etc thread.

daletournier · 03-10-2020, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

First, this is more of a paperwork and process issue as opposed to a human rights issue. Going on about free speech and human rights is just silly. No one is saying he can't complain. He's free to do so and as far as I know, there is no laws in Australia that he would run afoul of complaining to his hearts content.

But the OP's goal was how to get home without what he sees as an unreasonable and expensive quarantine. If you want to influence people, being argumentative and insulting towards the people can approve or deny his request is rarely a good idea.

The smart approach is not to tick off the people who hold the power until after you clear quarantine. Then when you no longer are in their power, you can go bat cr ap crazy about how evil and stupid they are.

One other thing, you know this is a paperwork and process issue? I'm not sure how you know that, I dont and I'm fairly certain I'm alot more involved in this process than you.

Can you please explain how you know this, you've gone through this process here in Australia? you've sailed a yacht into Australia and filled out the quarantine exemption application forms? your in contact with the maritime liaison personnel daily that are literally in the office next to the health officials making the decisions.

The guy in charge of the cops here is coming down tommorow to chat with us, hes not sure why this happening and is pushing hard for us BUT you know more than him? ...please explain how you know what's going on and how it should be handled.

daletournier · 03-10-2020, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Put your feet up.
Like the rest of us (in Vic at least) who have been stuck at home and not able to work since June.
Chill out. We hear your complaint but you aren't going to get a solution on this forum.
It turns into another "my Rights"..."the Govt is prepared to destroy the economy and negate their chances in the next election to somehow control us" "if you are compliant you are sheeple" etc etc thread.

Feel free not to read or put me on your ignore list.

daletournier · 03-10-2020, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wotname

Do you think they will chuck you application in the bin now that you have arrived or is there some chance it will still be processed and you get to go 'home'?

No, I dont think it will be chucked in the bin, and yes there's a chance. I really have no idea what exactly is happening in that office, I do know it's been brought to their attention via direct contact via at least 3 other officials

**Dockhead** · 03-10-2020, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattzilla

. . . But why if you have a home or yacht, are paying rent or marina fees already, should you not be able to isolate at that place and be trusted to follow the rules there?. . .

Like in the rest of the world . . .