Boat on the Rocks: Scenario Quiz

[jeepbluetj]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Absolutely I'd stay with the boat. They're much tougher than our mere flesh and bones.

That particular boat, yes. How long would a J24 have lasted? Maybe 15 seconds? Just like the Martin 242 last year that went into the Redondo pier - it shattered immediately on impact (Ironic it was essentially the same location).

I agree stay with the boat, as long as it's holding together. That S2 sure took a massive beating. If it's breaking up - aim for the water and hope. I think getting on the rocks would be the worst idea.

[JPA Cate]

Of course, the worst place to be is crushed between breaking up boat and rocks. Never, ever, put the soft tender flesh between the boat and something hard: always sacrifice the boat over yourself.

However, if you compare the Chicago incident with the Southern California one, the SC one is in salt water. You float higher there than you do in fresh water, imo, swimming is easier. Now, I grew up swimming in the ocean in Calif, and that probably affected my first response. But I find it interesting that Don CL, someone with lots of SC experience, also found the salt water option attractive.

A boat was lost here, the other day, on the west side of Cape Raoul. There was a sudden lull, boat swept towards rocky cliff by wave action, where the inevitable occurred. The people got safely to shore, and they were rescued by the tender from a cruise ship, they swam out to it. The ocean water's pretty cold here. They lost everything but their lives.

Ann

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by DaBod

Tough boat, sure, but how about the rescue swimmer who jumped in at about 2:08? Swimming towards a violently bucking boat and rocks in those waves? Those folks never cease to amaze me.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

That particular boat, yes. How long would a J24 have lasted? Maybe 15 seconds? Just like the Martin 242 last year that went into the Redondo pier - it shattered immediately on impact (Ironic it was essentially the same location).

I agree stay with the boat, as long as it's holding together. That S2 sure took a massive beating. If it's breaking up - aim for the water and hope. I think getting on the rocks would be the worst idea.

Agree. When the boat disappears on ya, THEN get in the water...preferably with life jacket strapped on tight!

[gamayun]

I'll back up my comments by suggesting everyone read the Low Speed Chase accident report. The one guy who stayed with the boat all the way to shore after it was rolled, and was not pitched out, was the least hurt. Five died in that accident. It's not the same as the SoCal incident, I grant you that, but first thought (IMHO) to anyone faced with something similar is to stay with the boat. Just as a seat buckle in a car is not always going to keep you safe, it's the same for staying with the boat. It might not always be the right answer, but for the majority of situations, it will be....

[lancelot9898]

Seeing the outcome it is easy to say staying on the boat, however if the boat should start breaking up then you are at the mercy of the waves. So if I had crew I would stay with the boat, but if by myself I would try to time my departure with a lull in the wave action to get away from the boat. Now where to go. With a rescue swimmer near by, the water would be my first thought, but if that swimmer was not around I would be concerned about the current taking me into the rocks so ....I would exit to the rocks on my own timing rather than nature picking the timing. Assuming that I felt that I could scramble quickly up those slick rocks even getting cut up along the way.

[scotty c-m]

There are no sure things in a situation like this. You take your chances. In general, the idea is to stay with the boat until it is untenable. When or if that boat started breaking up, then a choice needs to be made. In the video that point was REALLY close. It must have been terrifying. As a life-long surfer, I've been on a lot of rocks in the surf zone. They are dangerous to the point of death. Being washed around on the rocks of that breakwater is really dangerous. If you are a strong swimmer, and unhurt, the water is relativly safe. You can last about 15 to 30 minutes at that temperature, which gives time for a craft to rescue you. I would opt for the water. It might have been really hard even to get off the boat.

I wonder if the rescue swimmer had fins. If so, that's a real game changer.
It seems that a wind shift blew that boat off the breakwater. What are the odds?
Those guys are SO lucky.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Now, I grew up swimming in the ocean in Calif, and that probably affected my first response. But I find it interesting that Don CL, someone with lots of SC experience, also found the salt water option attractive.
Ann

I hate looking at that video. I have not yet found myself in that situation, but I base my response on experience with lots of river miles as a whitewater guide, free-diving, scuba diving and just playing around in waves and rocky shores in general. Setting salinity aside, if the boat were not there, do I think it is safe to just jump in and swim off the rocks there in those conditions? And I'd say yes, having done that kind of thing when younger and foolisher. So for that reason, jumping off the boat makes a lot more sense. But the reason I really hate that video is because I am not young anymore and I have a family who would most likely be with me there. There likely would be a good deal of panic. Jumping onto the rocks? Very tempting, but with the chance of slipping down between the boat and rocks, or having a wave lift the boat up to me on a rock that was safe a moment ago? Bad idea. Stay with the boat? Not if it starts breaking up, and if you wait until then things can be worse. I'd hope that I had presence of mind enough to get everyone ready to jump and then time it to jump after the big set has passed and tell them to swim like crazy, whether there is a rescue boat out there or not. (we have pfds on.) My 7 year old son, I'd probably throw him and follow him. Once floating clear of the boat I'd feel happy and safe, for all of us, and I'd feel the situation was finally under control. From that point we could drift in on the swell and probably catch some great body surfing! I don't see these waves, striking at the angle they are and not breaking yet, as necessarily forcing you into the rocks. But the tough part in all this is getting off the boat safely, it is a light boat and it is being thrown violently... timing, as with most things, is everything.

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I hate looking at that video. I have not yet found myself in that situation, but I base my response on experience with lots of river miles as a whitewater guide, free-diving, scuba diving and just playing around in waves and rocky shores in general. Setting salinity aside, if the boat were not there, do I think it is safe to just jump in and swim off the rocks there in those conditions? And I'd say yes, having done that kind of thing when younger and foolisher.

I agree completely. I have a similar background, with a bunch of surfing thrown in, plus I probably stayed dumber a lot longer.

Looking at the video, and asking myself where I'd rather be;
- on the boat
- in the water 5m off the rocks.

Water. Hands down. Every single time.
I've gone into the water by choice in conditions like that to surf and to dive - as long as you have a beach exit somewhere safe ish to get out, getting in is quite easy with timing.

But that's the problem with this scenario - making it from the boat to water 5m away. With the boat moving like it was, getting positioned to time the swells and go would have been very tough. It would probably be luck to get clear off the boat safely... but any hint of an opportunity, and I'd go.

Next problem would be crew - which is my 10 YO son and 7 YO daughter. Son probably easy, he's a strong swimmer already and would be very comfortable once in the water. I'd help him go, and send him on his way. He's swum 1/4 of a mile out to our boat in water that cold before without stress.

7 year old daughter is harder. She swims, but isn't strong. Most of her effort is staying afloat. And without fins, I'm going to be slow towing her. We'd need 10 to 15 seconds to get clear, particularly with inflated lifejackets. The waves were more frequent than that. With her, I'd probably stay until it was untenable onboard.

Good learning discussion - I'd like to think that if that situation was developing, I'd put the kids overboard before we went on the rocks, even if I stayed trying to get the boat off until we hit. If the kids were together 10m from the rocks, they'd be safer than on the boat on the rocks.

Mike

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by scotty c-m

There are no sure things in a situation like this. You take your chances. In general, the idea is to stay with the boat until it is untenable. When or if that boat started breaking up, then a choice needs to be made. In the video that point was REALLY close. It must have been terrifying. As a life-long surfer, I've been on a lot of rocks in the surf zone. They are dangerous to the point of death. Being washed around on the rocks of that breakwater is really dangerous. If you are a strong swimmer, and unhurt, the water is relativly safe. You can last about 15 to 30 minutes at that temperature, which gives time for a craft to rescue you. I would opt for the water. It might have been really hard even to get off the boat.

I wonder if the rescue swimmer had fins. If so, that's a real game changer.
It seems that a wind shift blew that boat off the breakwater. What are the odds?
Those guys are SO lucky.

I agree, situation was so dynamic and rough for those on board, it is hard to preplan

However, "backwash" is your friend in those conditions, so trying to turn the boat downwind and away from the waves then skewing away as the did, worked

[Barra]

I pick A from the comfort of my armchair

C would be ok too if you timed it right with the set waves.

B - jump to the rocks - would be a very very big mistake - boat could crush you to death and with limited ability to scramble on wet rocks you would be a sitting duck.

tough little boat though

[cyan]

Not sure, choice A maybe?

I mentioned in another thread that the approach to King Harbor can be sketchy even in moderate weather. The wind is almost always directly onshore, as shown in this Windfinder grab from today. (green arrow = normal approach, red X = incident location)

Those of us who make this turn on a regular basis coming home know that swells and just 15 knots of wind make it non-trivial. You need momentum and you need to be prepared to head upwind with a rocky jetty to your starboard ready to greet you if you make a mistake. You'd better have the engine on before the turn if there is weather. One little swerve to dodge one of the many kayakers and you will be right next to those rocks.

These guys reportedly did a prompt U-turn right after exiting the harbor. Without any momentum, they clearly had quite a challenge to get back. This spot has claimed more than one boat.

[gamayun]

Have any of you all who suggest swimming actually tried to swim in an inflatable life jacket before....? If not, you should definitely try it one day and see how far you can get, fully clothed with foulies and boots.

I'm no weenie when it comes to the water. I'm a 30-year scuba diver, a trained public safety diver and been around water all my life, including competitive swimming and open water swimming. But getting out of that mess from the water intact would have been extremely difficult for the average boater. If you read the article, there was also a dog on board. I would bet good money the dog would have made it fine. The people, not so much. It's a different thing if the boat had broken up and sunk. You have no choice then, but at least the boat might not land directly on you.

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Have any of you all who suggest swimming actually tried to swim in an inflatable life jacket before....? If not, you should definitely try it one day and see how far you can get, fully clothed with foulies and boots.

Yes.
One of the reasons why we have manual inflate life jackets when racing. Boots make a big difference swimming as well, clothes not so much.

When cruising, it's nicer to go places where you don't need boots and foulies


Mike

[SailorDrewG]

That was my boat, an S2 Yacht. The prevailing wind would have had us on a close haul, but it put us in irons Saturday. The 18-month-old motor wouldn't start. The current was flooding and we got hit by a set. It may have been 10-15 seconds before it all went bad. Thank God for Grant and Matt of the Redondo Beach Harbor Patrol.