Risk of not checking in, new country / island

[B23iL23]

I think another point missed is that if you visit an island and don't check in then you are also depriving that community of much needed income. They need every $ they can get and if you cruise there, then pay the fees.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by BBViper

Just wondering what the risk would be of sailing to a new country, for example a Caribbean island, and not checking in with customs/immigration, etc. Of not paying fees, going through all the paperwork. Just sailing up to a remote part of an island, hanging on anchor or even going to shore for provisions or restaurant. If no official found out and you moved on to the next island, much of a risk? Certainly if yo were 'discovered' there could be fines and possible confiscation maybe but what is the likelihood of being discovered?

Why do you ask?
Next you will be evaluating the risk of going into a store and taking out merchandise without payment?
Or bringing drugs into a country?

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by Snore

Really?

All that said- all of us have arrived at an odd time when customs was closed. I have ALWAYS tried to raise the local authorities on the radio. If I elected to enter a marina, I found the person in charge and explained my situation. The locals know each other and will smooth out any bumps for docking, and having dinner at the marina restaurant without clearing in. I always worked with the local marina owner to arrange to clear in the next day.

You bring up a good point. This is actually a common situation. You get somewhere after hours, exhausted from a passage; you drop the hook or dock at a marina and go to sleep without clearing in. Technically, you are illegal, but in reality you are simply trying to keep yourself and your boat safe, especially if the weather conditions are poor, by avoiding to "hang out" all night instead of mooring. Then, in the morning, before you have time to act, the officials may approach you assuming that you are trying to skip clearing. In the case of a marina, what you are saying is true, provided that you found somebody there to contact, but if you truly got in after working hours and were not able to contact anyone, you may still get in trouble.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by tarian

It is often a requirement that you proceed directly to such a port of entry on entering territorial waters. A vessel arriving in a country from outside its customs territory should fly the Q flag until it has been given clearance from the authorities. Even once clearance has been given, some countries may ask to inspect the vessel’s papers periodically, for example at each port of call.

Some countries require you to call them before their territorial waters , as soon as you enter their waters you are effectively entering their country and must follow procedure

How do they know your not smuggling

Yeah, it's often not too clear but a default position of checking in is obviously best.
"Article 18
Meaning of passage

1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose of:

(a) traversing that sea without entering internal waters or calling at a roadstead or port facility outside internal waters; or (b) proceeding to or from internal waters or a call at such roadstead or port facility.

2. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by force majeure or distress or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.

This is taken from:

Law of the Sea Convention"

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by BBViper

Just wondering what the risk would be of sailing to a new country, for example a Caribbean island, and not checking in with customs/immigration, etc. Of not paying fees, going through all the paperwork. Just sailing up to a remote part of an island, hanging on anchor or even going to shore for provisions or restaurant. If no official found out and you moved on to the next island, much of a risk? Certainly if yo were 'discovered' there could be fines and possible confiscation maybe but what is the likelihood of being discovered?

you apparently live in Florida USA and you're asking how another country will treat an American caught illegally entering their country, you only have to turn on the TV and look at how we treat illegal entry and expect worse.
I hope you question is a troll and not serious.

[Zanshin]

If customs is closed you can drop your hook (but not leave the boat) until customs is open. Normally you are not allowed to dock or dinghy ashore.

In my years of cruising I've been approached in the BVI by customs who asked if I had checked in (I was flying a German flag on my port spreader which looked to them like a yellow "Q" flag), I've been controlled by the Dutch in St. Martin and on Statia, off Montserrat by a speedboat (just radio), by the Antiguan authorities while anchored off Green Island, and by the French (twice). Each time I had to show my clearance papers at a minimum. Considering how much I travelled around that is not a lot of visits - but had I ever been where I was without having cleared in then I'd have been in very big trouble - be it a monetary fine or worse.

It is not worth the risk, assuming you have no nefarious intent. Clearing in sounds bad, but in actuality it is just 1-2 hours of waiting and filling out forms and when brought into perspective by how long one would need to wait in line when arriving by airplane it is just a minor hassle. Plus I've met some very interesting people at customs

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by BBViper

Just wondering what the risk would be of sailing to a new country, for example a Caribbean island, and not checking in with customs/immigration, etc. Of not paying fees, going through all the paperwork. Just sailing up to a remote part of an island, hanging on anchor or even going to shore for provisions or restaurant. If no official found out and you moved on to the next island, much of a risk? Certainly if yo were 'discovered' there could be fines and possible confiscation maybe but what is the likelihood of being discovered?

It should not be a matter of risk. It is a matter of simple courtesy and respect. In other words don't do it and do not even ask.

The SSCA has a marvelous policy we should all adhere to: leave a clean wake. And then be proud of it. Following local customs and regulations is part of that.

Jim

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have arrived at night, anchored, left next morning without going ashore. I think that's legal... ?

Certainly would not be legal in Canada or the USA — I’m pretty sure no where else. There is a right of innocent passage (think that’s what it’s called), where a boater can pass through the territorial waters of a country without clearing in. But it can only be as part of a transit, with no stopping. Anchoring is definitely considered a stop.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Just ask yourself - would you do this (or try to do this) coming back into the US?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by FabioC

You bring up a good point. This is actually a common situation. You get somewhere after hours, exhausted from a passage; you drop the hook or dock at a marina and go to sleep without clearing in. Technically, you are illegal, but in reality you are simply trying to keep yourself and your boat safe, especially if the weather conditions are poor, by avoiding to "hang out" all night instead of mooring. Then, in the morning, before you have time to act, the officials may approach you assuming that you are trying to skip clearing. In the case of a marina, what you are saying is true, provided that you found somebody there to contact, but if you truly got in after working hours and were not able to contact anyone, you may still get in trouble.

That’s where the “Q” flag comes in, if your flying the Q flag, then your making it obvious to the world that you haven’t checked in.
Don’t fly it and in my opinion your obviously trying to sneak by.
Flying or not flying that Q flag shows intent I believe.

[zstine]

About 1 year ago, we were in the Tobago Cays Nat'l park for 3 days. A German flagged boat dropped anchor shortly after we arrived and they were flying their Q flag. They paid the park fees, I assume as I saw the ranger boat tied to theirs, and they also stayed for 3 days and also went ashore. I don't know what they were thinking and why a Nat'l Park Ranger wouldn't have told them to go down to Union and check in but... none of my business, but we were like 'WTF?"... Now I admit that I have flown my 'Q' for an overnight stop when I dropped the hook to get some sleep and then moved on the next morning. I don't know whether this is technically illegal or not, but I think as long as you don't go ashore or stay for too long, it is generally not an issue...

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by tarian

As for being a drug runner if you do not register , man, people watching Miami vice re runs

A class mate of mine in college failed out sophomore year. He started running drugs by sailboat into St Pete FL. He was arrested before Christmas of junior year. I don't know if he's out of prison yet. Reality.

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have arrived at night, anchored, left next morning without going ashore. I think that's legal... ?

It isn't. International agreements and treaties have been interpreted in the courts that anchor on the bottom in territorial waters is presence. Freedom of navigation does not include anchoring. That's different from making attempts to communicate and anchoring until an office opens. Implication: Sailing from Florida to Bahamas and anchoring on the banks is not strictly legal but you might get away with it. Anchoring on the banks and moving on the T&Cs is not legal at all. Sailing from Florida through the Providence Channels without stopping on your way to the Caribbean falls under freedom of navigation. Anchoring in the harbor of a port of entry to wait for an office to open is okay; don't go ashore without permission.

Originally Posted by tarian

How do they know your not smuggling

Remember that the C&I officers know well the fees help pay their salaries. They are motivated to enforce the law.

Originally Posted by FabioC

You bring up a good point. This is actually a common situation. You get somewhere after hours, exhausted from a passage; you drop the hook or dock at a marina and go to sleep without clearing in. Technically, you are illegal, but in reality you are simply trying to keep yourself and your boat safe, especially if the weather conditions are poor, by avoiding to "hang out" all night instead of mooring. Then, in the morning, before you have time to act, the officials may approach you assuming that you are trying to skip clearing. In the case of a marina, what you are saying is true, provided that you found somebody there to contact, but if you truly got in after working hours and were not able to contact anyone, you may still get in trouble.

Which does go back to making attempts to communicate.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by tarian

As for being a drug runner if you do not register , man, people watching Miami vice re runs

:

So prior to moving to St Pete, I lived in SFLA for 28 years. During that time I have seen or heard of numerous busts. I have been in the Everglades pre-9/11 when small planes flew over low at night with no lights. While I have seen any square grouper out there, guys I trust have. But I have seen some wash ashore

After seeing me frequently off the coast, I have had DEA agents come alongside off Pompano while underway and ask me to report anything odd. The person gave his card!!!

Finally, on my personal boat I have been boarded and inspected in the open ocean. To the best of my knowledge none of these individuals were not actors.

Taking a cavalier attitude with law enforcement is simply not prudent.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have arrived at night, anchored, left next morning without going ashore. I think that's legal... ?

No. It absolutely is not.

[lordgeoff]

Originally Posted by BBViper

Just wondering what the risk would be of sailing to a new country, for example a Caribbean island, and not checking in with customs/immigration, etc. Of not paying fees, going through all the paperwork. Just sailing up to a remote part of an island, hanging on anchor or even going to shore for provisions or restaurant. If no official found out and you moved on to the next island, much of a risk? Certainly if yo were 'discovered' there could be fines and possible confiscation maybe but what is the likelihood of being discovered?

You would want people to respect the laws of your home country I presume.....?