Risk of not checking in, new country / island

[StuM]

Originally Posted by FabioC

You bring up a good point. This is actually a common situation. You get somewhere after hours, exhausted from a passage; you drop the hook or dock at a marina and go to sleep without clearing in. Technically, you are illegal, but in reality you are simply trying to keep yourself and your boat safe, especially if the weather conditions are poor, by avoiding to "hang out" all night instead of mooring. Then, in the morning, before you have time to act, the officials may approach you assuming that you are trying to skip clearing. In the case of a marina, what you are saying is true, provided that you found somebody there to contact, but if you truly got in after working hours and were not able to contact anyone, you may still get in trouble.

If you drop the hook and fly the Q flag, you are in effect asking for clearance. Nothing illegal about that. The illegality is in subsequently going ashore or leaving without clearance.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Certainly would not be legal in Canada or the USA — I’m pretty sure no where else. There is a right of innocent passage (think that’s what it’s called), where a boater can pass through the territorial waters of a country without clearing in. But it can only be as part of a transit, with no stopping. Anchoring is definitely considered a stop.

It depends on your reason for anchoring.


UNCLOS

Article 17
Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or
land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.


Article 18
Meaning of passage
1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose
of:
(a) traversing that sea without entering internal waters or calling at
a roadstead or port facility outside internal waters; or
(b) proceeding to or from internal waters or a call at such roadstead
or port facility.


2. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage
includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by force majeure or distress or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

No. It absolutely is not.

Yes, it is. See post #19. Anchoring can absolutely be considered a part of normal navigation under some circumstances.

Sometimes it may be modified or nullified by local law (e.g. Australia, which is particulatly relevant when transiting the Torres Straits as a single-hander) but in those situations the local law is generally only used as a discretional tool by local enforcement to facilitate better management of their waters.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by StuM

If you drop the hook and fly the Q flag, you are in effect asking for clearance. Nothing illegal about that. The illegality is in subsequently going ashore or leaving without clearance.

I definitely see going ashore being illegal without approval regardless whether the Q flag is flying or not.

Can you provide more detail about just leaving, without ever going ashore?
Enter territorial waters, fly the Q flag then or at minimum once anchored. Never stepping foot ashore. Then decide to leave in the AM, take down the Q flag and proceed.

I hope this is legal.

[Dsanduril]

Please don't read too much into that UNCLOS clause, it requires that passages be "continuous and expeditious" (i.e. quick and without stopping) while anchoring is only allowed when "incidental to normal navigation". This has generally been interpreted as waiting for a tide/current, waiting for entry to a VTS, and similar activities. Unfortunately, it is the country in whose waters you anchor that will decide the meaning of the word "normal".

[Scaramanga F25]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have arrived at night, anchored, left next morning without going ashore. I think that's legal... ?

NOT LEGAL, as soon as your anchor touches bottom you have landed in a foreign country.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by StuM

It depends on your reason for anchoring.


UNCLOS

Article 17
Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or
land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.


Article 18
Meaning of passage
1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose
of:
(a) traversing that sea without entering internal waters or calling at
a roadstead or port facility outside internal waters; or
(b) proceeding to or from internal waters or a call at such roadstead
or port facility.


2. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage
includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by force majeure or distress or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.

The US has never ratified UNCLOS, Same goes for some Caribbean nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Law_of_the_Sea

It should also be remembered that the law can be irrelevant to the officer standing in front of you. I've had many experiences with CBP type people who did not know their own laws .... They win almost every time.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I definitely see going ashore being illegal without approval regardless whether the Q flag is flying or not.

Can you provide more detail about just leaving, without ever going ashore?
Enter territorial waters, fly the Q flag then or at minimum once anchored. Never stepping foot ashore. Then decide to leave in the AM, take down the Q flag and proceed.

I hope this is legal.

I reckon it isn't legal or at least it would raise questions to anyone who noticed. Of course, if it isn't observed by anyone, the question is mute.

However if observed, you have declared an intention to clear in and then changed your mind - hmm... could be seen as worth investigating as to the cause for leaving again. Sort of like approaching the customs guys at the airport and then turning around wanting to go back to the aircraft .

At the very least, you are waving a red flag and saying "don't look now but I'm outa here".

[AJ_n_Audrey]

I tried to check in at Green Turtle Cay in May, and no one was in the Customs office. Told the lady in the Post Office next door why I was there, told the marina owner, called customs and told them the situation - everyone said "no problem". As it turned out, it wasn't until the third day that I could clear into Bahamas, because one of the Customs agents was sick, and the Customs lady who showed up on the third day APOLOGIZED to ME for inconveniencing me. And what a sweet woman.

Yes, always follow the laws of the country you're in is my rule. And don't visit the countries that have stupid laws.

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by BBViper

Just wondering what the risk would be of sailing to a new country, for example a Caribbean island, and not checking in with customs/immigration, etc. Of not paying fees, going through all the paperwork. Just sailing up to a remote part of an island, hanging on anchor or even going to shore for provisions or restaurant. If no official found out and you moved on to the next island, much of a risk? Certainly if yo were 'discovered' there could be fines and possible confiscation maybe but what is the likelihood of being discovered?

Tried to distill you points. Seems you're asking about a risk/reward situation. Keep this in mind: if you try it, you'll need to be lucky each and every time; the local authority needs be lucky only once. Time/cash costs of doing it properly vs time/cash/property costs - and maybe incarceration - for trying to skirt the system.

Do what you will. Just don't come anywhere near my boat untill you've legally checked in.

Hell, people who ask "just wondering what the risks would be" about bypassing laws and regs for sailing into a new country leave a sour taste in my mouth.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That’s where the “Q” flag comes in, if your flying the Q flag, then your making it obvious to the world that you haven’t checked in.
Don’t fly it and in my opinion your obviously trying to sneak by.
Flying or not flying that Q flag shows intent I believe.

Flying the yellow Q flag is 'requesting practique'. It is indicating to the shore personnel that you wish to clear in. Whether you are allowed to anchor in an area outside of a port of entry or anchor at all is country dependent.

[Paul L]

We have stretched the clear-in clear-out rules a number of times. Sometimes the rules just aren't very practical for a sailboat. We've only done it in places we've researched enough to know it is low risk. We don't do it to beat the fees or even to beat the paperwork hassle. But we have anchored on some non port of entry island for a day or two after a passage before checking in, or cleared out and gone off to anchor for the night instead of leaving. All depends on the country, the weather, and the locations of clearance ports.

[CassidyNZ]

If visiting a foreign place without checking in, it would be wise to switch off your AIS .

When signing out from Fiji for example, instructions are clear. Get on your boat and leave, do not touch any Fiji territory on your way out. Yet we know of boats that clear Vuda Marina then go on to spend a few days on Kadavu Island en-route to NZ. The authorities are watching your AIS, they know what you’re doing and if they catch you . . . . Worse are the boats that make landfall in South Lau islands then meander up to Savusavu to sign in. Customs/immigration know what you’re doing and may become notably unfriendly when you get to them

But then again, a close friend crossing the Pacific stopped at Nuku Hiva for provisioning. When the local gendarmerie requested a US$$$$ bond to sign in, he declined, went to the fuel dock filled his diesel and sailed out. Gendarmerie did nothing to stop him.

[Mike OReilly]

Thanks StuM, Dsanduril and BP for the fuller detail on the right of innocent passage. Interesting that the USA has not ratified the UNCLOS — they certainly insist on maintaining this right for their own vessels.

Yes, as I understand it, and in layman’s terms, vessels are generally allowed to proceed through territorial (but not internal) waters of a foreign nation without clearing in, as long as the passage is without any unnecessary stops. Safety of crew and vessel always take precedence, so that is one legitimate reason to drop anchor without clearing in. But I doubt if stopping to catch a few Zzzz would pass muster.

All this said, I bet it is done more than people admit. I know for a fact that it was not uncommon in the more remote parts of Lake Superior — at least it used to be before the USA (and now Canada) got all touchy about “securing the border.” Like so many things in officialdom, everything seems to be getting stricter and more bureaucratic.

[s/v Jedi]

So how many of you managed to be cleared in two countries simultaneously?

We learned the trick from the charter captains and after some planning and sailing back and forth we got all the papers, stamped and good to go anywhere from Grenada south to St Vincent north. That’s a nice area to move around without more paperwork

In case you want to know: I don’t remember the details anymore and it was many years ago (2004) so rules probably changed