Ocean Concerns

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

If I recall correctly it takes something like 7 years for the sinking cold water to resurface somewhere along the coast of East Antarctica. We were pulling arctic water up from 800 meters just off the Mertz, Ninnis, and Totten glaciers at the beginning of the year from the icebreaker Aurora Australis.

Attachment 158777

I had the pleasure this year of working with a bunch of very talented and devoted scientists around some of the fastest melting glaciers in East Antarctica. We did krill sampling, ice sampling. And thousands of deep water CTD ocean samples. During my time aboard the Aurora Australis we had a chance to talk about the science with experts in their feilds, and Talented PHD students. Much of it was way over my head, and when asked simple questions most of them mumbled about just how complex the whole system really was.

It seemed to me that these guys (and girls) were operating at a level so far above what I have seen on forums and websites that they just groaned when I tried to get a simple answer out of them about what seemed to me to have been a straightforward question. I guess for them its like when some well meaning novice sailor asks me a technical but broad and nuanced boat question, like what boat type is best, what anchor to get, or what rig is best... I could talk for a few hours about each topic, and most of it would go over their heads.... No absolute consensus would be possible because there are so many variables.

Here is a short video of the trip.

https://vimeo.com/208792357

I was driving the small boats, shifting scientists and cargo. But working with the scientists really made me respect the dedication, integrity, intelligence and specialized knowledge they had. I guess I just wanted to put a plug in for these remarkable people. It must be terrible for them seeing their work being torn to pieces or misrepresented by people with no (or minimal) qualifications in those areas of study.

Thanks for the perspective Snowpetrel! I highlighted that last part.
Scientific progress is made by claims or conclusions being subjected to peer review. I doubt there are many here, (or often in the media?,) who are truly qualified to be called "peers." These days it seems just about anyone can have an accepted, actionable, opinion, as long as enough people, or the right people, agree with it, regardless of their education, experience or knowledge.

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Thanks for the perspective Snowpetrel! I highlighted that last part.
Scientific progress is made by claims or conclusions being subjected to peer review. I doubt there are many here, (or often in the media?,) who are truly qualified to be called "peers." These days it seems just about anyone can have an accepted, actionable, opinion, as long as enough people, or the right people, agree with it, regardless of their education, experience or knowledge.

Its called thinking Don. One doesn't have to be a scientist in order to understand what the science and the scientists are trying to tell us. Many researchers are very skillful communicators and can present peer reviewed information in a way that an interested lay person can understand. These people often are linked to Universities from around the world and present the information in very articulate ways. The trouble comes, IMO, when a person lets religious and/or political beliefs interfere with their thinking processes. One other thing that interferes in the dissemination of facts, perhaps the most important, is financial greed.

[SV THIRD DAY]

The Scam just keeps going on and on and on....
What you need to do is find out what the next scam is and get in on it early.
Population Bomb...that was so 70s.
How about Fiberglass Boats won't hold up as well as wood ones...heck that is what the consensus of wooden boat builders once told us....

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The Scam just keeps going on and on and on....
What you need to do is find out what the next scam is and get in on it early.
Population Bomb...that was so 70s.
How about Fiberglass Boats won't hold up as well as wood ones...heck that is what the consensus of wooden boat builders once told us....

This one's different. It's exactly like when we discovered gravity, that the earth was round, and smoking is hazardous to your health. The science is settled, case closed.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Tulip Mania?

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The Scam just keeps going on and on and on....
What you need to do is find out what the next scam is and get in on it early.
Population Bomb...that was so 70s.
How about Fiberglass Boats won't hold up as well as wood ones...heck that is what the consensus of wooden boat builders once told us....

Yes, it's always good to be one step ahead of the scammers.

Like when big Tobacco tried to tell us the medical scientists were wrong, and smoking Tobbaco was perfectly safe.

Like when the Asbestos industry tried to tell us asbestos was perfectly safe against the indications from medical science.

Like when religious groups tried to convince us that evolutionary science was completely wrong and only they held the secrets to creation.

Like when the DDT producing companies sued the EPA for restricting the use of DDT.

Like when the Thamaldhide drug producing companies tried to sell their drugs to preganant women dispite indications of the harm it could do.

And like when the trillion dollar fossil fuel industry tried to convince us that CO2 was a perfectly harmless byproduct of burning fossel fuels, and the scentific community was just trying to get themselves fithy rich by promoting false and alarmist science.

Usually following the biggest money and/or power trail works to spot the scammers.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Usually following the biggest money and/or power trail works to spot the scammers.

Bingo....
You nailed it.
The MMGW scam industry is 100% entirely dependent on Government research and grant dollars. So imagine if you will a report that said the issue I've been getting Billions of Government money to study and warn against isn't happening. Isn't really a threat. The scam scare models were wrong.
Yep...follow the money indeed Snowpetrel and you will find the fraud in the MMGW movement.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Its called thinking Don. One doesn't have to be a scientist in order to understand what the science and the scientists are trying to tell us. Many researchers are very skillful communicators and can present peer reviewed information in a way that an interested lay person can understand. These people often are linked to Universities from around the world and present the information in very articulate ways. The trouble comes, IMO, when a person lets religious and/or political beliefs interfere with their thinking processes. One other thing that interferes in the dissemination of facts, perhaps the most important, is financial greed.

Ah yes . . . those political beliefs again. I agree they really should have nothing to do with scientific opinion. Yet politics keeps getting injected into it by some people again & again. Must be those Koch brothers & their propaganda machine preventing people from understanding how easy the science really is. They probably cooked up the satellite data too, and have Drs. Christy & Spencer on the payroll. Those two are privileged white guys after all. Not that we want to profile or disparage anyone . . . .