The external regulator we've all been waiting for!

[The Yacht Rigger]

Some additional answers and info here in this video. We do plan on doing a much deeper dive into the Zeus on a live video feed sometime very soon - to hopefully answer a lot more questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XM4W0enlzg

[tanglewood]

I think I understand "generator mode" now. It appears that you can create load (field) limits at various engine RPMs to limit how much power is consumed by the alternator, leaving enough to propel the boat. This sounds really good for boats with small motors that would otherwise be overloaded by a large alternator, picking up one of the feature from the Integrel product. Generator Mode overrides that and allows the alternator to run at full output regardless of any RPM limits. The idea is that you can rev up your engine while at anchor, and use it as a generator pulling full output from the alternator.


Back on pricing, if the Zeus were priced at $500 I would buy one today and start testing it as a replacement for a Wakespeed 500. The devil is in the details with products like this, and you don't know what you are really getting, and how well it really works until you try it to use it for a while. The WS-500 does some things really well, and is pretty brain dead in other ways. But the data sheet doesn't say that. I'm very interested in the Zeus, but $800 puts a pretty big damper on that.


One specific question? How accurate is the Zeus voltage sensing and voltage regulation? I have encountered a number of charging devices where the sensing and/or regulation is imprecise enough to not really be usable with LFP. They are fine with lead where things can be sloppy, but when faced with LFP, they really aren't adequate.


Anyway, I think it's a VERY interesting product. Just priced too high to really gain interest and market traction (my opinion).

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I think I understand "generator mode" now. It appears that you can create load (field) limits at various engine RPMs to limit how much power is consumed by the alternator, leaving enough to propel the boat. This sounds really good for boats with small motors that would otherwise be overloaded by a large alternator, picking up one of the feature from the Integrel product. Generator Mode overrides that and allows the alternator to run at full output regardless of any RPM limits. The idea is that you can rev up your engine while at anchor, and use it as a generator pulling full output from the alternator.


Back on pricing, if the Zeus were priced at $500 I would buy one today and start testing it as a replacement for a Wakespeed 500. The devil is in the details with products like this, and you don't know what you are really getting, and how well it really works until you try it to use it for a while. The WS-500 does some things really well, and is pretty brain dead in other ways. But the data sheet doesn't say that. I'm very interested in the Zeus, but $800 puts a pretty big damper on that.


One specific question? How accurate is the Zeus voltage sensing and voltage regulation? I have encountered a number of charging devices where the sensing and/or regulation is imprecise enough to not really be usable with LFP. They are fine with lead where things can be sloppy, but when faced with LFP, they really aren't adequate.


Anyway, I think it's a VERY interesting product. Just priced too high to really gain interest and market traction (my opinion).

Sometimes it can be worth it if (for example):
1. They release regular updates with new features (like Victron are excellent at this); and
2. They have stellar support;

Sometimes they make it worth it. Remains to be seen if this is the case here.

[CarlF]

The best price I could find for The Wakespeed+harness+two temp sensors+Victron crossover cable is

$745 - so the Zeus is not materially more expensive

If you need a shunt the Wakespeed is $800 (although it’s not clear if a shunt is included with the Zeus price either) While I now have a shunt at the battery this doesn’t tell me the amps coming from just the alternator. For that you need a 2nd shunt on the alternator cable)

https://www.vanlifeoutfitters.com/st...tor-regulator/

[Acadia]

Originally Posted by silvercreek

I have no connection to OP or the company but can make some guesses from reading their website:


I think it fixes the field current at 100%. My Wakespeed will throttle this back when in float mode to keep voltage constant. Sometimes it would be nice to force bulk mode to charge the batteries up.


I think I read it includes 2 shunts, likely for this purpose. I imagine you’re correct about requiring the app or MFD (or something like a Triton2 or Nemesis).


Agree, and I’m coming from a Wakespeed.

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I think I understand "generator mode" now. It appears that you can create load (field) limits at various engine RPMs to limit how much power is consumed by the alternator, leaving enough to propel the boat. This sounds really good for boats with small motors that would otherwise be overloaded by a large alternator, picking up one of the feature from the Integrel product. Generator Mode overrides that and allows the alternator to run at full output regardless of any RPM limits. The idea is that you can rev up your engine while at anchor, and use it as a generator pulling full output from the alternator.


Back on pricing, if the Zeus were priced at $500 I would buy one today and start testing it as a replacement for a Wakespeed 500. The devil is in the details with products like this, and you don't know what you are really getting, and how well it really works until you try it to use it for a while. The WS-500 does some things really well, and is pretty brain dead in other ways. But the data sheet doesn't say that. I'm very interested in the Zeus, but $800 puts a pretty big damper on that.


One specific question? How accurate is the Zeus voltage sensing and voltage regulation? I have encountered a number of charging devices where the sensing and/or regulation is imprecise enough to not really be usable with LFP. They are fine with lead where things can be sloppy, but when faced with LFP, they really aren't adequate.


Anyway, I think it's a VERY interesting product. Just priced too high to really gain interest and market traction (my opinion).

Tanglewood that is exactly correct regarding the generator mode, It does not magically create more power but disables engine Protections based on RPM. On a smaller alternator it has no benefit really but larger 250-360a it makes a difference.

In terms of Voltage control it’s very precise. In fact all of the controls are very precise. I did several tests where I limit the charge current to the battery to say 50 amps, I then apply a large load through the inverter like a counter top oven. The alternator ramps up to maintain the load through the inverter say producing 200 amps (charging still limited at 50 amps). If I abruptly turn the load off the alternator offloads immediately with a minimal bump to maintain the 50 amps charge limit. I need to do a bit more testing and will be testing side by side with a WS500. I will also record data with a Fluke to see if I can measure the spike if any. No shunts included and most people can use their existing battery shunt, alternator shunt only required if you want to see the alternator output. There is even an offset scale to match the data to your existing shunt display if it’s off.

The price point is negligible for us as installers because of the added benefits to support the customer remotely. They can send me a data file with all the parameters recorded over a period of time for me to Analyze, send me their file configuration, I can modify and send back etc. There is a control to turn on a blower at an alternator temp level, 2 feature ins that we normally program at half power and off. Lots of features that make it worth it but not for everyone.

[Acadia]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Sometimes it can be worth it if (for example):
1. They release regular updates with new features (like Victron are excellent at this); and
2. They have stellar support;

Sometimes they make it worth it. Remains to be seen if this is the case here.

1. There will be regular updates in a similar fashion to Victron with feature updates etc.

2. They have a great team for support and they are carefully selecting the distributors for the product that will be able to provide great support as well. There will lots of content created to help address commonly asked questions.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Acadia

1. There will be regular updates in a similar fashion to Victron with feature updates etc.

2. They have a great team for support and they are carefully selecting the distributors for the product that will be able to provide great support as well. There will lots of content created to help address commonly asked questions.

What will the support model be? Direct factory support, or will you have to go through a dealer/distributor? Hint, the first works very well, and the later is a smashing failure.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Acadia

The price point is negligible for us as installers because of the added benefits to support the customer remotely.

If course the price point is negligible for installers - because they aren't paying it...... the customer is....

[CarlF]

With the Wakespeed and cable now over $700 in the US (was there a price increase?) I’d pay an extra $100 just for the Arco’s WiFi monitoring, control and programming.

If it lives up to the marketing, I think it’s a Wakespeed killer.

[tanglewood]

Anyone know what the field current limit is on the Zeus? I would be driving two alternators with a single field output.

[SVWalksonWater]

I am working with a Zeus distributor, in full transparency the OP, (we're looking for vendors, so let me know if interested).

I'll try to answer a few questions here in the same post.

The package includes the Zeus, an alternator wire harness with alternator thermistor, a battery control wire harness with battery thermistor. Shunts are not included with the Zeus package. Cost is $796+ applicable taxes and shipping for the Zeus package. An existing battery shunt is required, an optional alternator shunt can be added.

Multiple units will coordinate charge together via RJ45 connection or NMEA 2K connection. The Zeus acts as it's own DVCC with regard to current minimum and maximum limits. Alternatively, we are in daily communications with Victron so that with a Victron controlled BMS, the battery will dictate to the Zeus required output and in the absence of a network connected BMS, DVCC will similarly address and coordinate overall system charge outputs. With Victron LiFePO, where the batterie's BMS communicates with the Cerbo, the Zeus will directly read battery data. We expect to see that Victron integration very shortly-they're almost there. Regarding Sailing Harry's "At a glance," instantaneous feedback questions, with Victron integration, this will show as another power input, similar to solar/generator/shore power, so that data would be available from a user's Cerbo or VRM or N2K connected chart plotter.

Support will be through Arco, the distributor, or the dealer. Our lead ABYC Electrician, (who looks similar to Acadia,) was on the original product development team, and has installed several of these in Beta, so we're in a good position to answer installation questions and have two way communications with our dealers to bring upgrade suggestions back to Arco. As Acadia stated, being Bluetooth connected and software driven, we expect to see future firmware updates and directly support customers by adjusting product settings wirelessly and remotely.

I'm in the process of installing one of these on our catamaran as we speak, will advise as I discover further.

[svtickles]

Originally Posted by SVWalksonWater

I'm in the process of installing one of these on our catamaran as we speak, will advise as I discover further.

What was your experience installing the zeus on your cat? Which alternator are you using?

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Acadia

I need to do a bit more testing and will be testing side by side with a WS500. I will also record data with a Fluke to see if I can measure the spike if any.

I know I'm pulling this quote forward a month or so, but it caught my eye. Both the Wakespeed and the Zeus are new kids on the block, and while they have a lot of attention I suspect they are a very small percentage of installed smart regulators. Balma has been the major player for a couple of decades.
It would be interesting to hear side by side comparisons with the Balmar as well. Deciding to buy the Zeus or the Wakespeed is a new installation question, but it would be nice to know if an upgrade were worth while. I suspect it is a resounding no, and the Balmar is quite adequate, but that is based upon nothing but assumptions.
The features of the Wakespeed and Zeus are just dressing on the cake, but not a compelling upgrade. Performance questions might be a different case.

[SVWalksonWater]

Hopefully this play-by-play will give confidence to the DIY installer to consider the Zeus and answer some of your questions. I tried to add as much detail as I could. I'm an office guy and a DIY installer on my own boat, so not a professional installer.

So, to begin with, this isn't a real time installation, as this has been a true "boat project" where installation was delayed due to having to stop to fix other "boat stuff," ie: the Garhouser dinghy outboard lift, located just outside of the engine compartment that I've been working in, that went swimming due to bi-metallic corrosion, resulting in a recovery dive and fabrication for repair...

Alternator mounting was further delayed as I'm working with a prototype alternator, and fabrication was required to fit to our Yanmar 3YM30.

Once installation of the high output alternator and Zeus was underway, things went pretty smoothly. A Balmar pulley kit was required to switch from the OEM V-Belt pully. On our engine, the kit has 10 teeth. If you've never done this before, the installation is pretty straight forward. The kit has 3 pulleys (in our engine case, the kits are engine specific), a belt, and fasteners. The crank-shaft pully was pretty straight forward, clean off any built up paint or rust, back off 4 bolts, smear on Tefgel (included in the kit) to protect from bi-metallic corrosion between the aluminum and steel pully, and the new pully goes over the existing pully, bolted back on. The fresh water pump pully was removed (use an impact driver for this, you'll thank me later), and the similar process to the other pully with Tefgel and re-bolting took place. The alternator pully was removing the center bolt (impact driver and a gloved hand) and replaced the new pully. Make sure the belt lines up, place the alternator on the engine, grabbing the belt and tighten.

Our prototype is a 250A case grounded alternator. I ground off some paint on the front of the bottom tensioning foot to attach a new 2/0 wire and the Alt VGND sending wire for the Zeus on the Alternator harness. I attached another 2/0 wire and the Zeus Alt V+ wire to the alternator positive output. These required ring terminals. The other Zeus alternator harness wires were butt-connected (18Awg) to the appropriate alternator control wires. The Zeus alternator thermistor had a case mounting point on the alternator designated for this purpose. Input 2 was not used in my application, but could be used for a physical switch to shut down the alternator in the case of belt slipping, etc. I was okay with the in app-switch for this feature.
Also, note that two in-line 30Amp fuses are required for the Alt V+ and the Alt Field wire. These are not included in the Zeus package, so pick up 3 inline fuse cases and 2 30A with 1 5A, I'll get to the 5A later... While I'm at it, the Zeus kit includes two wiring harnesses and two thermistors. You'll need a good handful of red ring terminals, red butt connectors, and a few mounting screws for the basic installation as well.

The included two Zeus harnesses are 6' long, I chose to mount the Zeus in my battery compartment, even though it is rated for installation in the engine compartment. In my application, this was a cleaner install with regard to not having to work around a spider-web of wires. With this regard, all of the wires can be extended using 18AWG wire, with the exception of the thermistor, which was about 10-15' long, so extension was not required.

As a side note, I'm installing on a system that originally had the alternator wired to the start battery. Due to the increased expected output of the alternator as controlled by the Zeus, I removed the ground and positive wire from the factory alternator and added a 2/0 positive and negative wire from the new alternator to my house battery. I installed a Blue Sea Systems 8255 Digital Meter Shunt 500a/50MV on the positive side wire, followed by an appropriately sized megafuse, and tied into my positive bus/house bank. None of the equipment in this paragraph is included in the Zeus kit. This second alternator side shunt is optional. A house bank shunt is required for the installation.

The Zeus battery harness install was likewise pretty intuitive. The ignition wire went back to the original OEM alternator harness with a butt-connector. This was mentioned to Acadia that maybe it belongs on the Zeus alternator harness in future generations. In my installation, to an AGM house bank, several wires are for future use/applications were coiled and tucked away (Input 1, Enable ATC-a LiFePO4 BMS connection, Output 1). Two house battery shunt wires were coiled together, required cutting to length (shortened) for my install, and ring connectors. I have an existing Victron Energy 500a 50mv Shunt SHU500050100, which accepts two ring terminals on it's side, which I connected to. (A Smart shunt without these terminals may require tapping and screwing opposite the Victron circuit board or other connection). The twisted alternator shunt wires likewise got ring terminals and wired to the Blue Sea Systems shunt mentioned above. This was placed inside of a pvc electrical box to protect from accidental arc. The BatV-Sense and BatV+Sense wires got ring terminals and went to either appropriate end terminal of my parallel bank. The Bat Temp thermistor went to the positive battery terminal on the first battery of my bank. I did find that the supplied wire and ring terminal were a bit small for an AGM application, so it was connected to the battery clamp tightening bolt. This shouldn't be an issue for LiFePO4 installations. The Bat GND wire went to a ground bus bar with a ring terminal, and the BatV+ wire got the inline 5 amp fuse mentioned before, a ring terminal, and to a positive bus.

I extended my N2K backbone to another N2K T-Connector with a terminator and a N2K connection to the Zeus. None of this is included in the Zeus kit, but it populated the Zeus information on my Victron Cerbo GX.

All in all, when you first open the box and get into the harnesses, it looks overwhelming, but as you get into the installation and follow the app instructions, it's really a pretty simple DIY job with basic wiring. Depending on the boat and location of the engine compartment and battery compartment, I'd plan on 1-2 days for installation of the Zeus with holdups being running wires through the firewall and replacement of a stock alternator and upgrading wiring as I'll describe. A standard DIY will have most all of the tools you should need, except maybe the large crimpers if you have to upgrade your alternator wires (and, no, the Harbor Freight Chicago hydraulic crimper won't crimp larger than 0AWG.)

The Zeus app is currently active on the Android play store and the Apple App Store. You can "Create a Demo Device" to familiarize yourself with the app even before you have the product in hand. You can likewise "Begin New Setup" and simulate the step-by-step installation process.

The Zeus installation guide can be located here: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/01...Guide_V11..pdf

[SV-Nautilus]

Thank you for the thorough post with regards to your installation, SVWalksonWater.

I've had the chance to speak with the tech support department at ARCO and they have been very helpful with the questions I have had (Thanks Nick!).

One of the concerns I had was extending the length of the thermistors, as the 6ft length of the harnesses is not enough to reach both my alternator and battery bank. I would need about 10ft with each harness. The techs at ARCO mentioned that, in my case, extending them wouldn't be an issue. It is only for boaters looking to have really long runs (he said 100ft) where this could present an issue because of the resistance of the longer cable.

They did also mention an alternator shunt (not included) is required for the functionality of the Zeus.