Smart Regulator for Yanmar Alternator

[Pete the Cat]

Actually, Rick might be correct with some external regulators, but my ancient Ample Power Smart multi stage regulator allows the 80 Amp Yanmar alternator (modified for external regulation) to properly send to the tach on my 3JH4E. The only issue is a 90 second delay in information when the engine is first started because the regulator does not kick in the alternator immediately to allow the engine to oil up before it loads it. But the RPMs are accurate after that.

[noelex 77]

Thanks for the great post Rick

Has anyone used a Sterling alternator to battery charger? It would seem a simple way of adding smart regulation to the Yanmar .

[vientoman]

I hope this question relates to the original topic:

I would like to configure a charging system for an AGM batt bank with alternators driven from twin 3YM yanmars ( it's a cat )

To properly charge an AGM bank it is my understanding that internally regulated alternators don't play well with AGMs.( shouldn't ever really give them more than 13.8V ) So, assuming that I convert both alternators for external regulation, will I need two separate external regulators and something like a Balmar twin-engine Centerfielder II to accomplish this?

How is this done in the real world? Any ideas are welcome. Thanks

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by Rick

....Here are some instructions that you might find useful if you choose to convert your alternator yourself:........

On a cruising boat you need some spares - and a spare alternator is worth having, so my suggestion is to buy the best Marine alternator you can and keep the old "Automotive" regulator as a spare. "Marine" alternators are built to a higher standard of cooling, especially the diode block, as they are required to work much harder for much longer hours when charging a fully depleted service bank. Buy an alternator temperature regulator to go with your external regulator and see how high the temperature can go. My 100 amp Balmar is regularly up to 95 deg C charging a large AGM bank.

[Vasco]

Just a few words about Balmar regulators. I have just installed the second new one in eight years. The first one went about 4 years ago and when I got down to the boat a month ago the second one was shot. Balmar said it is unusual for them to go after a lay-up but nevertheless it's shot. I had the MC-612 which is no longer made and replaced that this time with the MC-614-H. On both occasions I did not have to replace the wiring harness. The Balmars are very easy to program. I was shocked at the price of the new regulator.

As for configuring the regulator, it's very easy. Balmar gives you a little screwdriver with a magnet on the handle. Just hold the magnet on the little red dot on the regulator and you scroll through all the settings and tap which ones you need. The support from Balmar was excellent in troubleshooting the old one and installing the new one.

As for Ample Power regulators, mine (circa 1989)on my CS36M died quite a few years ago, so I took out the Powerline alternator and replaced it with the stock Hitachi on a 3GM30F. I don't go for long trips on this boat and don't need the high output alternator anymore. When I used to cruise this boat, the Powerline failed a couple of times and I still had the existing wiring for the Hitachi so it was easy to swap them it out. The Powerline alternator has been rebuilt many times.

[hellosailor]

Viento-
"will I need two separate external regulators and something like a Balmar twin-engine Centerfielder II to accomplish this?" Yes, and that might be the only equipment built for the job. The problem is that when there are two regulators feeding one bank, one will see the output from the other, and immediately cut back power because it doesn't know that's a regulator rather than a full battery. So at best, you waste charging power and increase charging time.
Of course if you change to that setup now you are depending on the reliability of the whole setup with "more stuff that can fail" so carrying spares, or having a spare alternator with internal regulator, may be a consideration.

legend-
I know Balmar shows alternator outputs at 190F, close enough to your 95C, but that's still awful hot. Discrete electronic parts have a nominal life of 100 years at 20C and that is derated by half for every 10C temperature rise. So, 20-30-40-50-60-70-80-90...divide 100 by 2, seven times. Unless I did the math wrong, that means running electronics at just 90C would produce a failure in just 3/4 of one year. Presumably in the diode frame since the regulator is external to those.
I'm sure Balmar is aware of this and would have some comment about what they've chosen or used, but 95C? I just wouldn't be comfortable with that in anything except my toaster.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

........... I know Balmar shows alternator outputs at 190F, close enough to your 95C, but that's still awful hot. ......

I should have added that the temperature sensors cuts in at 105 Deg C and reduces the alternator output by half. Balmar clearly have designed the alternator to cope at these temperatures where normal automotive devices would just give up. That's what you pay your money for I guess.

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Yanmar’s tachometers operate from the flywheel sensor on GM series engines, and from alternator pulse on other models.

My Yanmar 3HM35F also has a flywheel sensor.

[Albro359]

My 3QM30F has a flywheel sensor.

Alternators like the Balmar (actually made by Leece-Neville) are called hot-rated or KKK..they are sepcially built to withstand the high temperatures caused by the high current output

In charging deep cycle house bank batteries, the output of the alternator determines the time it takes to charge the bank. The regulator is the device that determines how they are charged. Your standard Hitachi alternator with its internal regulator is designed for charging a start battery that never gets highly discharged. This alternator regulator combination will not properly cahrge your house bank, the battery capacity and life will be severley reduced.
The ONLY way to charge deep cycle batteries whether they be traction, wet cels or AGM is to have an externally regulated alternator with a 3 stage (bulk, absorb, float)external regulator.
I have had a 110A Balmar alternator with a Next Step regulator for some years now without problems. I don't really see why laying up the boat would impact the alternator / regulator function. My boat was left in Fiji during the last cyclone season from November to April and there was no problem with the alternator or regulator.

[hellosailor]

Alan-
"Your standard Hitachi alternator with its internal regulator is designed for charging a start battery that never gets highly discharged. "
Actually I heard one of the makers describe it a bit better. An automotive or truck alternator is designed to not overcharge the SLI battery when the vehicle is on the highway all day. full charging is not the consideration, so much as not overcharging it during long runs, i.e. an hour or four or eight on the highway.
When you look at it from that perspective, the need for a real 3-stage deepcycle regulator seems much more logical.

[roetter]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Thanks for the great post Rick

Has anyone used a Sterling alternator to battery charger? It would seem a simple way of adding smart regulation to the Yanmar .

I installed a 210A Sterling alternator-to-battery charger on a Yanmar with the 80A Hitachi alternator about 4 weeks ago. It was dead,simple to install and the charge voltage and current was much higher specifically when SOC went over 85%. With the internal regulator the amps quickly went down to about 25A while with the Sterling they stayed around 70A. I was planning to hook the Sterling up to the second Hitachi on engine 2 (catamaran) but a grounding with total loss prevented that next step.

[DeepFrz]

Actually Leece-Neville is a brand that is built by Prestolite.

[jeremiason]

Several years ago I installed a ElectroMaax 160amp Alternator, External Regulator and a serpentine belt kit on my Yanmar 75 HP (JH3TE). This combintion charges my 968 Amp Housebank incredibly well.


They make kits for many engines and the new pullies bolt right on. The nice thing about the serpentine belt is that it does not slip and creates no belt dust. It also lasts much longer than a standard belt.


The pullies sizes are different from the orginal factory pullies, causing the alternator to turn faster at lower engine RPMs... My alternator produces over 100 amps at 1000 rpms and the maximum 160amps at around 1800 rpms

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

legend-
I know Balmar shows alternator outputs at 190F, close enough to your 95C, but that's still awful hot. Discrete electronic parts have a nominal life of 100 years at 20C and that is derated by half for every 10C temperature rise. So, 20-30-40-50-60-70-80-90...divide 100 by 2, seven times. Unless I did the math wrong, that means running electronics at just 90C would produce a failure in just 3/4 of one year.

Your assumptions may not be correct but let's assume for math sake they are. Running .75 years continuously is over 2000 recharge operations at 3 hours each. That is not an unreasonable estimate for the life of an alternator. Actually it's pretty good life expectancy in my experience. When you consider the bearings and other mechanical wear and tear it sounds to me like Balmar have it about right.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

I should have added that the temperature sensors cuts in at 105 Deg C and reduces the alternator output by half. Balmar clearly have designed the alternator to cope at these temperatures where normal automotive devices would just give up. That's what you pay your money for I guess.

That's right. If you don't get a separate heat sensor, you can do this:

Small Engine Mode - discussion with link to the picture of the toggle switch: Alternator heat, Regulator Controls, Small Engine Mode