Portable Generators Can Kill

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by tilostahl

I recently installed a CO detector on my boat. Of course it's just a regular detector for residential use, with a 10 year battery. Does anyone know how long they will function in a marine environment? I'm not sure I should trust it.

They are notoriously poor functioning in any environment. But who knows, maybe they will work when needed. I just bought a new one for the house (propane heat and cooking). Reviews are terrible. I went with a combo CO and Propane one this time.

[HopCar]

A propane fueled generator will produce a lot less CO than a gasoline fueled generator.
That’s why most forklifts that work inside buildings are fueled with propane.

I used to sell propane fueled outboards. We were allowed to run them inside at boat shows when gasoline fueled outboards weren’t.

Spilled propane is also slightly less dangerous than spilled gasoline. It disapates quicker and has a slightly narrower range of explosive percentage when mixed with air.

I’m not suggesting that everyone switch to propane fueled generators but it is something to consider.

[aqfishing]

There is a warning in the Leopard owners manual cautioning against running the generator while alongside, especially with below decks hatches open.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Many people don't realize that there can be a backdraft from the stern of the boat forward, especially when not moving. A gen sitting on the lazarrette could be deadly if this goes into the cabin. My state requires a sticker about C0 on new craft, although I seldom see them. They don't provide enough info anyway.

That sticker is required on all boats with propane cooking or heating equipment. It is to be posted in the cooking area of the boat so how would you see them?

When using a portable generator it should be on the foredeck as far from the companionway as possible, all deck hatches and portlights should be closed.

That article does not mention proper installation of a home generator. When I bought my home the generator transfer switch and connector were inside the garage. The garage door had to be left ajar to connect the generator. I installed an outside connector so the door can be closed. I would not be surprised if those people that were killed did not have a proper generator transfer switch and were connecting the generator to an outlet to supply their house with power - a direct violation of building code. A power company worker expecting a dead wire could easily be electrocuted.

Here on Whidbey Island we get a lot of power outages. We had a 47 hour outage followed by a 12 hour outage just about a week ago. High wind warnings for tonight and tomorrow probably means a repeat.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by HopCar

A propane fueled generator will produce a lot less CO than a gasoline fueled generator.
That’s why most forklifts that work inside buildings are fueled with propane.

I used to sell propane fueled outboards. We were allowed to run them inside at boat shows when gasoline fueled outboards weren’t.

Spilled propane is also slightly less dangerous than spilled gasoline. It disapates quicker and has a slightly narrower range of explosive percentage when mixed with air.

I’m not suggesting that everyone switch to propane fueled generators but it is something to consider.

Not to mention how much longer a propane powered engine will last. As a young man I worked at a place which serviced and repaired some taxi cabs. It was amazing how clean the engines were inside after a couple hundred thousand miles. . The heads and piston tops inside were bright silver clean!

[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by MartinF

Any sailor who runs a portable generator on his yacht should read this scary report.

https://www.propublica.org/article/c...ontent=feature

In summary, a generator can kill you even thru a slightly open hatch.

Thanks for the (tragic) link. When we're not on the boat, where we have no generator, we live in our motorhome. A gas powered coach means a gas-fueled generator, and we would never, EVER run that generator at night. CO detectors are fine, but we wouldn't trust our lives to one, nor would we trust the wind direction to hold overnight, as with a gas generator on deck. Something we see now & then.
Of course for us it's easy, as our appliances in the RV are (all) LP gas/electric, and on the boat, we have no a/c fridge, just an icebox. So no need to power appliances. But if you must power a boatload - or a house full of appliances - for any significant amount of time at all, you are facing a very real risk with any gasoline fueled genset.
And if you run these things while you are sleeping, you are risking your life. Period. Carbon monoxide is very tricky stuff, and nothing is ever certain when it comes to exhaust dissipation.
Diesel and LP gensets are different, but your results may vary...

[Viking Sailor]

One possible solution is to add an extension hose to the generator that you can hang over the side so that CO exits the hose near the water.


https://www.amazon.com/EU2200i-EU200...52&sr=8-2&th=1


P.S. I have converted both of my Honda generators to propane.

[Love2 boat]

As a volunteer fireman - I can tell you CO detectors go off essentially at 10ppm. OSHA allows factor workers to work in a factory at 50ppm for 8 hours. CO is created due to incomplete combustion and / or a leak back into the house / boat.



The regular home detectors can and do malfunction due to moisture, dust and spiders/bugs. In general they work great - you need to test them monthly or regularly - even if it has a 10 year sealed battery. On a boat as someone pointed out the salt water and spray can affect the detector. I have an enclosed cabin and I have no issues with a home smoke and fire detector on my boat. But as an aside the best detectors are single use - CO or Fire. The combo alarms have had lots of issues - yes they say they have fixed the issue but if you are concerned get a single use CO alarm.


Happy Boating.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by MartinF

Any sailor who runs a portable generator on his yacht should read this scary report. In summary, a generator can kill you even thru a slightly open hatch.

I have been running gas generators, lawn mowers, chain saws, diesel generators, propane heaters, stoves and torches, inboard and outboard engines gas and diesel. It is not the generators that kill... it is people who do not read instructions on ventilation. You go at anchor... bow pointing into the wind and run a generator at the bow and sit downwind..HELLLO!! On a catamaran... same thing, the fumes go between the hulls and come out at the swimming area. Skiing... the swimmer is at the stern with the engine running when you get ready and when you pick up the TIRED skier. Shut the engine off when around carbon monoxide...! In confined space regulations, the first safety regulation you have to observe is proper VENTILATION. And for the ones that do not understand or observe the rules, or do not read instructions, you have gas sniffers, propane detectors, carbon monoxide detectors. And they are also the ones who do not observe, and B___H about the four minutes of running the blowers before you start your engines... Sorry... I just had to vent a little....

[Jammer]

It is my view that portable generators are extraordinarily hazardous because of the large amount of CO they emit. The hazard is far greater than that with outboard motors because outboard motors generally have underwater exhaust and are used on a moving boat. The hazard from permanently installed diesel generators is also usually less because the CO emissions are much lower and because of the wet exhaust.

I do not believe that CO alarms are a sufficient mitigation for a variety of reasons: the alarm will not always work, the alarm may be disregarded, the alarm may not trigger because CO levels are hazardous only in an area away from the alarm.

Portable generators also pose fire hazards, electrical hazards, and hazards incidental to fuel handling and storage.

Most of the fatalities involve larger generators operating heavy, continuous loads such as electric heat or air conditioning. Most of the fatalities involve operation in cold, windy, rainy weather where some effort is made to locate the generator in a protected area. Most of the fatalities involve dealing with some combination of stressful situations often including illness (or seasickness) and fatigue. All this is just as true on boats as on land. In recent years there was a local fatality here where someone was running electric heat on their boat on a stormy day.


My advice
- Equip your boat with proper marine electrical systems that rely on a portable generator, if at all, as only a backup or standby source
- Have a proper heating system (Espar or similar) if you are in a cold climate and use your boat during shoulder seasons
- If you use a portable generator get a small one. Anything larger than the 2200 watt inverter machines is too big
- Only run them when a responsible, able-bodied individual is present and awake to observe the situation and mitigate any hazards that occur
- The detectors do help even though they do not make an unsafe installation into a safe one


The propane conversions pose their own problems and hazards and are not ideal for use on a boat.


Smart people who think they know the hazards have been killed too

[chasfgr]

It's a petrol generator, with poor carburation, that kills.
Not open hatches or sleeping on board or anything else.
Just plain slipshop equipment maintenance.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by chasfgr

It's a petrol generator, with poor carburation, that kills.
Not open hatches or sleeping on board or anything else.
Just plain slipshop equipment maintenance.

Pretty much all engines put out some CO, particularly if they're burning gasoline. Even diesels put out some (but fairly low levels). The only way to eliminate it entirely is a very well tuned engine with a good catalyst setup in the exhaust.

[billgewater]

Seems like CO (and other gases) issues imply more extensive use of PV panels/batteries where possible. Plus portable gen sets are still often noisy.

[nortonscove]

The title of this thread is a bit much. Many things can kill if not used properly and this is no different.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Pretty much all engines put out some CO, particularly if they're burning gasoline. Even diesels put out some (but fairly low levels). The only way to eliminate it entirely is a very well tuned engine with a good catalyst setup in the exhaust.

You do realize that diesels create more particulate than gas. Usually by about 13%. They may burn less fuel but are easily as bad and most likely worse than gasoline.