Honda 2000 built in.

[Briggers]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I think the Honda generator and its equivalents are just brilliant, really hard to justify the cost of diesel built in genset when a little Honda can fill the needs of many boaters like me.

Just curious, has anyone built one of these into their boat taking into consideration the petrol (gas) issues ,or just mounted one permanently in the cockpit area ? any pictures?

I saw this neat little setup on Google.

Attachment 205378

I don’t suppose you could provide the URL for that?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Briggers

I don’t suppose you could provide the URL for that?

Dont know about that but this site has lots of generator enclosures for marine applications

https://kshmarine.com/custom-generator-boxes/

[MHTinkler]

I firmly believe that every person that writes safety recommendations is an anomaly obsessed lawyer whose entire family tree is named "Murphy".

[windcastle1]

I did not read all 21 pages of posts but I’m pretty sure if you installed below deck a non-marine” gas generator as a DIY (ABYC etc) project that your insurance (if you carry it) would be voided.

[Franziska]

Not sure about how insurance works in the US, but I guess if the source of an accident is directly related to the installation you might be right.

Still any other accident not directly related I would not see how they could get out of paying.

[catchcryhamm]

We had ours stored in a cockpit seat locker (catamaran), and lifted it out onto the cockpit floor for use onto a rubber mat to stop it "walking". Did this every night for 8 months, no problem. Friend when building their cat made a customised locker along the back of the cockpit of their cat for the Honda with vents and drain overboard out the back. A modern boat would not need a larger generator unless it is fully air conditioned. We had the smallest marine air con in one cabin, which the Honda 2 with a soft start kit, ran easily in Eco mode. The new Hondas are now 2.2.

[JimmyDarci]

The mounting systems discussed in this thread seem really incredible. We have a Honda and love it. Usually secured to the transom when using it. However, the direction of the exhaust is another issue to consider. Typically this is why generators are rigged to the stern. On the other hand, there are occasions where you may
want to relocate the generator to another spot on the boat depending upon the direction of the wind. Perhaps a case that can be moved to the foredeck or other location if necessary?

[skenn_ie]

Depending on the size of the outboard, I would attach an auxillary, high-power alternator to the o/b in preference to a separate generator.

[Garbonz]

Originally Posted by argonauta1

Hey folks, a beautiful anchorage at sun-downer time. Maybe the soft splut splut of an inboard diesel genset. Then. . . . some philistine fires up the Honda generator . . tranquility gone. Would not have one!

Soft splut splut Har har har.

That’s hilarious. You are old and deaf.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Garbonz

Soft splut splut Har har har.



That’s hilarious. You are old and deaf.

And no mention of the obnoxious diesel fumes blowing down his neighbors hatch!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Not sure about how insurance works in the US, but I guess if the source of an accident is directly related to the installation you might be right.

Still any other accident not directly related I would not see how they could get out of paying.

If they can prove causation, whether directly or not your Insurence will be invalidated.
However often in the pages of the fine print is a statement along the line of you have to maintain the boat in a seaworthy condition and may define seaworthy as all work done to applicable standards.

I have not nor will I read all the fine print, but I’d be surprised if there isn’t a statement like that in there.
It is after all a logical request.

[warrior 90]

HoHoHo, hold it for a moment. Let´s take a deep breath. We are at PAGE 21
Thread topic is " HONDA 2000 BUILT IN"

For all You guys that have not followed since post Nº 1 of this thread here it is....

Originally Posted by daletournier

I think the Honda generator and its equivalents are just brilliant, really hard to justify the cost of diesel built in genset when a little Honda can fill the needs of many boaters like me.
Just curious, has anyone built one of these into their boat taking into consideration the petrol (gas) issues ,or just mounted one permanently in the cockpit area ? any pictures?
I saw this neat little setup on Google......Attachment 205378

Response Nº 2 was

[QUOTE=a64pilot;3039971
]!!!!!! It’s been discussed several times, and pretty much everytime it comes down to there are several problems to overcome with exhaust and cooling air, but really I believe gasoline being down below and it’s associated safety issues kills it. !!!!!!!
The beauty of a Honda to me is it’s simplisticity, it’s ease of maintenance, the fact that it takes pretty much no storage room.
!!!!!! If you built it in, it’s going to be complex with dealing with the cooling issues and exhaust, and it’s going to be difficult to service. !!!!!!
Mine sits on deck at my binnacle with a fabric cover, and if weather is going to be real bad then it gets ratchet strapped to the binnacle.
To use it I just put it on deck. This year I have a 6gl outboard tank as an extended run tank, I don’t need the extended run, but putting gas in it got old.
Outboard tank has a gauge, and I can dump in a whole 5 gl can and run for a couple of weeks.
I just used my spare outboard hose.
An issue with the neat container you pictured is salt spray. Maybe with the exhaust facing aft and removable covers for the air intake and exhaust?

So let´s make this thread a little more then the typical page filler.
At least that was my idear, OK

Well, before we take the next step on THREAD TOPIC HONDA 2000 Built IN
We defined HONDA 2000 Built "IN" STAGE Nº 2 and now we are at .....

STAGE Nº 3 BUILT "INSIDE" WITH ELECTRIC STARTER

To remind You all.... electric starter with remote control allows Automatic Start for the GEN to support constant HVAC = High Voltage AC loads.
This would be very practical running loads like Induction cooker, AirCon with soft starter, hot water, water maker, etc. with a small size battery
@ 47 Lbs weight + Fuel

Electric Start of GEN will also allow You to determine Your battery Size/Type depending on the inconvenience of the GEN run time You are willing to support ?

IS IT POSIBLE ?

Originally Posted by windcastle1

I did not read all 21 pages of posts but I’m pretty sure if you installed below deck a non-marine” gas generator as a DIY (ABYC etc) project that your insurance (if you carry it) would be voided.

The other day newhaul mentioned a Marine AC GEN at quote Nº 274 page 19
So obviously there is a way to have a gasoline generator "INSIDE"

OK, let´s have a closer look at this Kohler beast built and certified for "INSIDE"
What makes it suitable for use INSIDE ?

KOHLER 5EKD 5kW Marine GAS Generator
http://www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/g2128.pdf

Hahaha Yeah, interesting, Gas engine and just by the looks..... that is definitely a lot more INSIDE then we are talking and NOT PORTABLE

http://www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/g2128.pdf
Meets Coast Guard safety standards for electrical systems and
gasoline fuel systems (33CFR183)
Yes, NEW some 8000+ $.... + shipping and installation

I wonder what would happen if I go to West Marine tomorrow because there is a special offer for MARINE gas generators. The sales man better not talk about anything said in this thread or there are 8000 $ walking to the door
I am sure when I talk about my concern about gasoline generators on board he will high light that this GEN meets all coast guard requirements even he most likely does not even know where to go to find Coast Guard 33CFR183 in case he might have interest to read it.

There is a lot of detailed info on a 3 page Spec but beside a coast guard reference there is nothing about safety with gasoline generators on board.

Well, I certainly would feel much safer with our sweet portable little Pu**yCat on the deck even if there are no glamour stickers that clearly define the use of portable gasoline generators on board then having this certified beast in my belly no matter how many blowers, flame arrester and what not.... even so the installation has all the blessings.

But just in case somebody wants to get a unit like that installed by the "PROs" ask how much $$$ the insurance will cover.

I prefer the portable Honda 2000 @ 47 Lbs
Hahaha, less weight without the paper mountain of standards and regulations

Common sense would be the sales man hands me a copy of Coast Guard 33 CFR183 and tells me "Read it before You crank up the GEN "

Should there not be a doc by law that I have to sign that I have read 33 CFR183 before I pay ?

Yeah, there are some notes with the owners manual with dos and don´t that almost nobody reads

Does that happen ?
Is that reality ?
Hahaha, do You still believe in Santa Claus ?


Well, back to business HONDA 2000 built in... before we get lost in the jungle
Let´s try if we can find a definition for "INSIDE" that makes the hungry happy .

We are at STAGE Nº3 Honda 2000 with ELECTRIC START BULT INSIDE

Can it be done and how safe is it ?

Well, let´s have a DEEPER look at this Kohler Beast
What does this GEN make it suitable for MARINE USE INSIDE ?
besides.......

1 - flame arrester
2 - explosion proof starter motor
3 - mechanical/explosion proof internal fuel pump
4 - Coast Guard safety standards for electrical systems and
gasoline fuel systems (33CFR183)

[warrior 90]

A little NOTE on the side

INSTALLATION in relation of a PORTABLE Honda 2000 INSIDE a closed space

!!! Now when talking about the devil let´s give it a name
EXPLOSIVE,VOLATILE FUEL VAPORS & static discharge igniting stray fumes in a fuel tank
The sum of this TERM and implications/fuel /handling can be found reading this thread and here is a little visual entertainment about gasoline vapors to fuel Your attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuGWHfWqWtg

I hope that shows what EXPLOSIVE, VOLATILE GASOLINE FUEL VAPORS are and what they can do AND hopefully also show how little it can take that You have some sitting in Your tank or INSIDE a closed generator housing.
I remember reading about this tech being used for the first time in relation when the Germans were trying with the engine built for Messerschmitt ME 109 to fly at higher altitudes.

Of course now we could compare the use of gasoline and propane in terms of dangerous and to how use it and start an endless discussion but that was not my intention. I am a BAD BOY but not that exotic and for sure not on CF.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

A little NOTE on the side

INSTALLATION in relation of a PORTABLE Honda 2000 INSIDE a closed space

!!! Now when talking about the devil let´s give it a name
EXPLOSIVE,VOLATILE FUEL VAPORS & static discharge igniting stray fumes in a fuel tank
The sum of this TERM and implications/fuel /handling can be found reading this thread and here is a little visual entertainment about gasoline vapors to fuel Your attention.

I hope that shows what EXPLOSIVE, VOLATILE GASOLINE FUEL VAPORS are and what they can do AND hopefully also show how little it can take that You have some sitting in Your tank or INSIDE a closed generator housing.
I remember reading about this tech being used for the first time in relation when the Germans were trying with the engine built for Messerschmitt ME 109 to fly at higher altitudes.

Of course now we could compare the use of gasoline and propane in terms of dangerous and to how use it and start an endless discussion but that was not my intention. I am a BAD BOY but not that exotic and for sure not on CF.

didn't need a video to tell you that gasoline engines run on gas vapors ( the flash point of gasoline is approx -45℉) and not liquid fuel . ( auto ignition is at 536℉)
There is a specific ratio range that gas vapors are volatile above that and no ignition and below that threshold no ignition either.

As to propane vs gasoline same thing just propane has a colder flash point of -155℉ and auto ignition point (470℃ for propane )

( certified gas free engineer military)

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

didn't need a video to tell you that gasoline engines run on gas vapors ( the flash point of gasoline is approx -45℉) and not liquid fuel . ( auto ignition is at 536℉)
There is a specific ratio range that gas vapors are volatile above that and no ignition and below that threshold no ignition either.

As to propane vs gasoline same thing just propane has a colder flash point of -155℉ and auto ignition point (470℃ for propane )

( certified gas free engineer military)

THXs, I didn´t know

Did not want to touch the subject but since You are expert on subject.
Well, carburetor not required for fuel supply.
Could fuel supply with fuel vapor be as safe as with propane ?