Honda 2000 built in.

[Franziska]

I am very much against overregulation.

Give people a chance to make their own mistakes and learn from them.
We do not need more of this nanny state behavior.
If I do have an accident on my boat and if it's due to a fault I made its me facing the concequences and that's perfectly fine.
If someone else has an accident on my boat I am also willing to accept the consequences.
Of course items like Navlights need to be the proper ones..

People who do proper work on their own boats (not Flyn' Hawaii style) tend to know more about their boats than those who always run to a workshop. Guess who can fix things better when cruising remotely....

If I buy a product initially though of course it has to comply with standards.
If I use the product (yacht) commercially the same applies.
For my private vessel let me keep my freedom.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Franziska

I am very much against overregulation.

Give people a chance to make their own mistakes and learn from them.
We do not need more of this nanny state behavior.
If I do have an accident on my boat and if it's due to a fault I made its me facing the concequences and that's perfectly fine.
If someone else has an accident on my boat I am also willing to accept the consequences.
Of course items like Navlights need to be the proper ones..

People who do proper work on their own boats (not Flyn' Hawaii style) tend to know more about their boats than those who always run to a workshop. Guess who can fix things better when cruising remotely....

If I buy a product initially though of course it has to comply with standards.
If I use the product (yacht) commercially the same applies.
For my private vessel let me keep my freedom.

If considering the type of mistake, where some materials may be scrapped (ie, cut a piece of wood too short and have to get another) I couldn’t agree more.

If considering a type of mistake, where it could result in significant property damage to others, or lost souls (due to possible fire or explosion).

I don’t believe it is truly possible to “accept responsibility” for causing a fire or explosion based on their shortcuts to freedom.

A cash settlement to the survivors?

To me, accepting responsibility for one’s actions is complying with safety standards up front and reducing the risk (to the extent practical) for injuring someone in the first place.

It appears that others in the thread are trying to pick and choose which safety risks they wish to comply with (likely based on ease and cost).

For the proposed enclosure, many are only looking at the ventilation aspect with respect to not overheating and damaging their $1000 generator.

The elephant in the room (almost literally in size) is the manufacturers instruction to keep the sides and top of the generator 1 m from combustible materials. To be compliant, possible solutions include locate in open air, a non-combustible enclosure (e.g. grounded metal with fire resistant acoustic insulation (we’d have to look up an appropriate standard ) or a box approximately 2.5 metres long x 2.3 metres wide x 1.5 metres tall.

Then we have all the issues related to engine spark and flame arresting on intake and exhaust, swap the generator out for an ignition proof model. Swap out the controls or mount them remotely, and the list goes on and on and on.

[Siberian Sea]

Although I do carry a Yamaha 2000 gas generator the only time it’s ever been used is to just run it for a few minutes to keep it in running order. Instead of putting money and time into permanent installation of a generator I put money into a good battery bank, charge controller, large solar system, high quality inverter, and efficient lights. I can run my Engel refrigerator/freezer, 110 power tools, shop vacuum all I ever seem to want. However I don’t have a water maker and hot water comes from the propane stove or on deck solar shower.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And a copy/paste of the main points from the federal regulations for manufacturers of boats, should you choose to follow them. It's wise to follow them.

Note: A Honda eu2000 falls under "portable equipment" until you start connecting it to all sorts of stuff electrically, fuel wise, etc. But that since it is pull start, it isn't an issue just like the open flames in the galley aren't an issue.

However, Rod isn't wrong in suggesting people follow the regulations of ABYC. They are a good set of regs.


FEDERAL LAW:
183.610
(a) Each compartment in a boat that has a permanently installed gasoline engine with a cranking motor must:
(1) Be open to the atmosphere, or
(2) Be ventilated by an exhaust blower system.
Permanently installed with regard to an engine means that it is securely fastened to the boat’s structure and the necessary wiring, piping and controls are connected and secured to the boat in accordance with the applicable USCG regulations. See Title 33 CFR Part 183, Subpart I, Electrical Systems and Title 33 CFR Part 183, Subpart J, Fuel Systems. The use of the term “permanently installed” is to highlight that the engine is not portable or easily removed from the boat and to differentiate it from “portable equipment”.
The term gasoline engine with a cranking motor is used to indicate that the gasoline engine can be started from a location that is remote from the compartment where it is permanently installed. An engine without a cranking motor (starter) requires the presence of a person at the engine location in order to start the engine. Presumably, any dangerous conditions such as liquid fuel or vapors being present at the engine location would be detected by odor and/or sight and remedied before the engine is started.
This section of the regulation addresses boats that have a permanently installed engine with a cranking motor in a compartment. To comply with the regulation one of the following alternatives must be satisfied:
1. The compartment must be open to the atmosphere, as defined in 183.605.
2. There must be an exhaust blower system installed to ventilate the compartment in which the engine is installed. An exhaust blower system consists of one or more blowers with ductwork and terminal fittings attached to the ducts.
TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW

• Is there a gasoline engine permanently installed in the compartment?
• Does the gasoline engine have a cranking motor (starter)?
If you have answered NO to either of the above, see 182.620, Natural Ventilation.
If you have answered YES to both of the above, then you must answer YES to one of the following:
• Is the compartment open to the atmosphere? See 183.605 for requirement.
• Is there an exhaust blower system? See 183.610, (b) through (f), for requirements

We do have to be careful about reliance on the word “law”.

If we mean it solely to be that “if one is boarded by enforcement officers and the issue observed they could charge the boat owner for the infraction”, correct it is not a law.

But if ones boat mods cause harm to another, and the judge may refer to the standards to detemine if the owner is culpable, what difference does it really make. (I guess that you may get away with non-compliance if you don’t hurt someone.)

Isn’t that a big risk to take for the sake of utilizing that particular solution to generate power on your recreational vessel to charge the batteries, because of some clouds?

I’m likely jaded more than the average boater, as I get to see the risks the average boater is exposing their vessel, crew, and slip neighbours to every day.

It’s amazing what freedoms some will take with other people’s safety to save a few bucks, and even just due to laziness.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by newhaul

As to the enclosure causing any thermal issues well there are literally tens of thousands of air cooled generators in enclosures all over the united states now . Just look at the generators in the new to newer rv's
Onan has a real nice looking 2200 watt that is fully enclosed. Then mounted in a compartment on the vehicle.

There are, but they also have very open compartments with lots of room and large fans, RV’s usually have the entire bottom open of course, or mine did.
The most brilliant design I’ve been around was the GM Motorhome, it’s generator was on slides and pulled out of the side of the vehicle like a large drawer, real easy to work on, sit on a stool and it was as accessible as if it was on a table. You could make a portable box do similar to where one whole side slid open like a drawer making the whole generator accessible for maintenance, but simply slide it closed and latch it closed for operation.

The Honda as is, is of course if you look at it, an air cooled generator in its own very tight enclosure.

So of course it’s not an unsolvable problem, I was responding to the post or two that stated a cooling fan of an amp or two at 12VDC will cool it, it won’t.

However the explosion proof marine rated fans I linked to will, in my opinion provide enough air to cool one. They are also ignition certified to make your surveyor happy and will function as a blower to vent any fumes prior to running it too.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Are we looking at the same animal ?
ONAN 2200/2500 W Portable GEN
https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect...or/p99264.html

Looking good, weight size, price... similar to Honda

ONAN_________________HONDA
Rated Watts 2200 Watts > 1800
Surge Watts 2500 Watts > 2200
Rated Amps 18.3 Amps > 15
Engine 98 CC > 121 CC

YES, more power but with smaller engine
BUT: No electric start, No companion configuration for upgrade to higher power demand.
For that I prefer the Honda with the best world wide service and back up. With RX 120 engine even better.

But then link shows PRODUCT DISCONTINUED
In Ref. of model continuity I also prefer Honda as my first choice.

my bad I typed the wrong numbers .should have been the 2800

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/c...xoCupkQAvD_BwE

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Franziska

@Cadence I kindly disagree

The pumps do not need anywhere near 2kw.
I'd appreciate an idea of how you came up with that assumption....

Apart from that Diesels are always way way more heavy than petrols.

I did not mean pumps would take two KW but would consume enough energy that an engine of that displacement wouldn't cut it. They are at their limit when providing the extra 100w or so for starting loads, as it is. It sounds like building an entirely different unit. A water cooled block, heat exchanger and a couple of pumps. Not implying it can't be done but do question the practicality for 2KW

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

my bad I typed the wrong numbers .should have been the 2800

Yes, that is a very sweet Genni
https://www.absolutegenerators.com/m...tion_Sheet.pdf
I have not seen anything comparable in that range 2,3 - 2,8

Air conditioner operation:
2.8kW generator set will start and run one 13500 Btu high
efficiency air conditioner(15.5 Amps or less) plus 600 watt
base load with an additional 300 watts of power available.

2.5kW generator set will start and run one 13500 Btu high
efficiency air conditioner (15.5 Amps or less) plus a 600
watt base load with no additional watts of power available.

2.3kW generator set will start and run one 7800 Btu high
efficiency air conditioner(5.5 Amps or less) plus 600 watt
base load with an additional 100 watts of power available

I think that is the ideal size for most of today´s requirements. With today´s solar, battery tech and inverter shore power assist I can not think of much I would not be able to handle. Give me a Diesel engine with it for marine app and I stop looking.

Only 1 more requirement on wish list
Weight (Lbs.) 125

Yes, they all have to come down with the weight if they wanna play in the EC Rv market. With usual drivers licence Max is 3,5 Tons
I am sure with some tweeking on the material side this Gen could be less then 100 Lbs

But it´s far away from the weight that is comfortable portable even if added wheels.
But YES, very nice unit

But let´s get back to our Honda 2000 Genni.

Let´s ask.... can the Honda do the above mentioned features if it is part of a system with soft start and Lithium batteries ?
How much hours of AirCon is reasonable per day even in the tropics ?
OK, let´s add induction cooking ?
I think we are close. Fridge, heating and water maker is not an issue anymore more.
Leaves only one more desire.... the back up feature for charging the batteries when there is no solar or to add a few amps once in a while.
Yeah, a little stretched for the Honda and here and there we might need to knock off a few watts and BTUs but that´s it.
And at 47 Lbs I am not able to beat it and have a reasonable reliable system.
Honda is absolutely king in that class.
The only way I can bring down the weight more is with the battery size.
But then I need electric start and remote control feature.

What happened ?
Expected a commentary from You on Stage 3 # 2 OIL COOLING

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Franziska

I am very much against overregulation.

Give people a chance to make their own mistakes and learn from them.

Hahaha Yes, I am sicher I could also without the paperBATTle ueberLEBEN

Give people a chance ?
Well, here it can get a little tricky sometimes
One thing is You think You know and the other is You know.
But I would asume if You have survived the first stage You are on the right track.
Lightning up candles on the Christmas tree is much more romantic then flipping a switch

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There are, but they also have very open compartments with lots of room and large fans, RV’s usually have the entire bottom open of course, or mine did.
The most brilliant design I’ve been around was the GM Motorhome, it’s generator was on slides and pulled out of the side of the vehicle like a large drawer,

I like the concept. It´s like sitting down and having breakfast. But watch out, now it can get a lot more tricky with the wires. But maybe coming back to the origen of the platform that slides out on tracks.... No side walls like a drawer. We already have the side walls from the box. Now You open the drawer, disconnect all the plugs and then You slide it out to do whatever and when after You slide it back in You close the door with a LOCK # 8 safety
BUT, how to test wiring when GEN is disconnected ?
FIX would be a long extra wiring harness but I am not a particular fan of that because wires should be kept in cool place


> So of course it’s not an unsolvable problem, I was responding to the post or two that stated a cooling fan of an amp or two at 12VDC will cool it, it won’t.

> However the explosion proof marine rated fans I linked to will, in my opinion provide enough air to cool one. They are also ignition certified to make your surveyor happy and will function as a blower to vent any fumes prior to running it too.[/QUOTE]

And what, if we separate the cooling and the evacuation of posible fuel vapors that requieres the fan ?
Then the power demands from the fan would be a lot less

[AKA-None]

I actually have said gmc rv and the generator is open to fresh air all over. So not like it’s in a box. And yes it had to meet all kinds of regulations

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

I actually have said gmc rv and the generator is open to fresh air all over. So not like it’s in a box. And yes it had to meet all kinds of regulations

It’s those slides though that I thought brilliant, flip two levers that lock it in place if memory serves and it will slide out, on my Coachman, you could remove the door on the side of the Motorhome, but if you needed to get to the backside of the generator, you were unbolting and removing it.
The difference in serviceability was amazing

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Generator Safety:
“... Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.
Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition...”
➥ https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/sta...erator-safety/


Fueling Tips (various sources):
“... Always refill your portable fuel containers on the pavement or dock to ensure a good ground. While the bed of your truck or the deck of your boat may seem stable, static electricity can build up and cause a spark...”
“... All portable fuel tanks must be filled off of the boat. Once filled, store portable fuel tanks onboard in a well-ventilated area away from the engine and electrical equipment...”
“... All portable tanks must be filled off the boat while refuelling, to prevent spillage onto the boat, to protect the environment and to reduce the risk of fire or explosion...”

So, you mean I shouldn't fill my generator from the old washing up liquid bottle while it's running, on the boat, bouncing around while at sea? Damn.........

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe

So, you mean I shouldn't fill my generator from the old washing up liquid bottle while it's running, on the boat, bouncing around while at sea? Damn.........

*Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition...”

Yeah, next time I see a guy with a generator I will call 911 and tell m there is a terrorist on the dock preparing a bomb

[warrior 90]

NEED HELP
Anybody knows the whole story on the DC 12 V side of the Honda 2200i

On page 75 is the wiring diagram
http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/...X31Z446010.pdf

On the upper part there is the DC OUTLET RECEPTABLE wires W/R and Bl/R that go to the RECTIFIER

From the RECTIFIER there are 2 wires B/R and B/R that go all the way down directly to DC WINDING

Nº 1
Does that mean the DC power is totally isolated from the AC and an independent unit from the rest of the GEN ?
DC and AC share the same generator main shaft but that´s all ?
DC is an independent and isolated coil ?
Is that correct ?

Nº 2
Manual says DC max output 8,3 Amp
How much is DC output in ECO Mode ?