Honda 2000 built in.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Well, that´s what I thought till now but just in case......
now we are on page Nº 7
I thought I make a serious question

Hahaha well, You think that I take things too serious ?

Now that I finally have a Frog electric starter for the 47 lbs Honda 200 and I can use a remote control new dark clouds showed up on the horizon.. You think I should run for the hurricane shutters and go to the Super and by food for a month ?
I could live with the candle light but 1 month without cold beer ? That´s an absolute disaster.

I hope we get this Honda thing resolved soon before the worse will happen and I am in the dark.

Yes, I agree, bolted and portable sounds strange, kind of not much sense.
Goes totally against the nature of the Honda 2000

Yeah, let´s strap the thing down. I like that. How about with a rubber band ?
1-2" wide, bolted on one side and on the other kind of a snap latch that can be easy opened and closed. Does not transmit any vibrations.

Now we tie down the gen on to a flat surface. Yeah, just flat surface.
Don´t worry. Let´s take it step by step.

On the surface we mount some kind of a pad... let´s say with some stripes of double sided tape so we can remove it for cleaning. Yes of course, NO 5 star hotel for the critters.
The pad is kind of a water proof closed cell foam rubber cushion with excellent sound and vibration absorption capacity to prevent any transmission of vibration to that surface.

So lets say somewhere below that surface there is a waterproof electrical box with easy access and 6 fixed electrical connections to the boat. (of course all fused etc and bulletproof, against earthquakes, hurricanes, and blessed by insurance inspectors, FBI, CIA, You name it and of course half a ton of certificates and lot´s of stamps) You know what I mean ?
You look at it from all sides and there is nothing, only silence and when they come looking and see the half tonne of certificates they gonna run to the next boat anyway.

So now the wiring diagram with the connections to....

Nº 1 AC main bus bar
Nº 2 AC main bus bar or to isolated inverter/charger with power assist DC
Nº 3 spare for posible 2nd GEN to run 4000 W or 2 x 2000 W
Nº 4 DC main bus bar / battery direct
Nº 5 pending application
Nº 6 pending application

On the other side of the electrical box there are cables/wires that pass the surface through waterproof compressing fittings to plugs corresponding to....

Nº 1 Plug AC Honda
Nº 2 Plug AC waterproof somewhere cockpit ....for toys, tools, etc.
Nº 3 xx pending ??? second companion GEN ????
Nº 4 Plug DC Honda
Nº 5 pending application
Nº 6 pending application

Marine rated Cables/wires pass the upper surface on the front side of the GEN down to the electrical box with comfortable space for handling the plugs and are connected below with blessed ring terminals for easy inspection or in case of Murphy´s Law to be replaced.

So now we have the Gen secured to a surface without losing portability. The Honda 2000 is connected. We have AC and DC and I asume pulling the rope iit will start and when we plug in a 2000 W AC flood light we should have a CLEAR VIEW of the situation.

Are You happy with the SPEC so far ?
Any further suggestions ?

Well, to be safe that the Honda runs like it´s supposed to, we could also use a 1500 W floodlight. That leaves 500 W for a little beer cooler to test the DC connection. I hope nobody has any problems with the TEST procedure..... or You think we should first ask for authorization with a stamp and a CERT ? ????..... You know that´s like calling the devil, don´t You ?

all fine exceptp t for one minor part ( unless they changed it recently ) The 12v puts out a constant amperage no regulator therefore you can cook your battery if your not careful.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

ABYC is a not for profit organization.

They establish marine safety standards for manufacturers and repairers of recreational vessels.

Like many professional organizations, they offer memberships. A general membership is only US$99 /yr and that gives you free access to all standards and Technical Papers online.

I carry a business membership that costs me US$265/yr, plus the money I spend on ABYC training and certification.

I don’t have to; I just do it because it is the right thing to do.

It’s a really smart move to comply with the standards when making modifications to one’s boat.

You can learn more about the organization here.

https://abycinc.org/

Originally Posted by Chotu

What a complete dodge of what I said.

I have all the abyc regs and my systems are installed to its methods. It has a great deal of good advice.

But I never asked what it was. I asked why it's not available to the general public if it's the law, as some people said it was earlier.

The information needed to comply with the law doesn't cost $99/yr. It's located for free in published CFRs. By definition these CFRs are freely available to the public. Therefore, ABYC is absolutely not the law.

This is.


https://www.uscgboating.org/regulati...book/PART1.pdf

Hey, of course it is a complete dodge of the question, but you have to admit, he dodges very well . Probably because he is practiced at it.

[s/v Jedi]

After a couple of days of reading and considering, here’s what I recommend:

- if you require a genset while underway, like for charging batteries or making water, get a marine diesel genset installed in the traditional way.

- if you only require a genset while at anchor and have the room for it and can afford it, get a marine diesel genset installed in the traditional way.

- if you lack required space or funds then go for a Honda, the one with the marine 30A outlet and option for parallel operation with a 2nd unit and fuel shut-off valve to run the carburetor empty.

- while not in use, stow it securely in lazarette or deck box.

- When in use, put it on aft deck, (re)fill the gas tank and connect it to the boat shore power inlet using a made to size short power cord. Use it in the manner as it’s designed for, taking advantage of it’s strengths like portability, affordability, easy maintenance and simple setup. Don’t try to turn it into a belowdecks marine genset, where advantages quickly become void or even liabilities.

- When power rating isn’t enough to run something, consider a Victron Multiplus inverter/charger unit that has a power assist feature that makes the impossible possible.

- When you want to maximize battery charging without overloading the genset, use a battery charger where maximum AC inlet draw can be configured. The Victron units can do this but I’m sure there are many more options that I’m not aware of.

- Step back and rethink everything before committing. Can (extra) solar panels and batteries make the genset more of a backup than a primary system? First priority is to find ways to avoid genset run time, which always wins over other options

[Chotu]

One more SV Jedi, which is why I have mine. HVAC. Sometimes you just need to cool off a bit. Since we don't really do much in terms of cold weather, we have some rudimentary back up electric heat as well.

Feels like a waste to have a generator just for HVAC when everything else runs off solar, but here I am. and can't see putting all the cash into a diesel generator just for occasionally cooling or heating the boat.

[sailorboy1]

When you get tired of fixing your installed diesel generator more than using it, get a Honda.

If you decide you need/want an installed diesel generator - don't get a 1 cylinder POS. get a good unit even if it is a used and rebuilt one for more money.

I believe over the life of my diesel generator when you consider the cost on buying, installing (I did it), running and fixing it - it has cost $10/hr.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Hey, of course it is a complete dodge of the question, but you have to admit, he dodges very well . Probably because he is practiced at it.

What dodge?

I clearly stated that ABYC is a not for profit organization.

Nothing in life is free boys.

Any federal government regulation you can get for “free” is paid for handsomely, probably tenfold, by tax paying citizens.

Those involved in engineering disciplines should be well aware that there are all kinds of standards prepared by professional associations that are not free. Consider building codes, NEC, ASME, the list goes on and on.

Any boat mod that isn’t done in compliance with applicable marine standards, simply isn’t done correctly, and it will be called on the next survey, and will inevitably cost more to do wrong and fix (or take the hit on resale value) than it will to do right in the first place.

[Chotu]

But...it's not the law because ALL laws are able to be read for free by all people obliged to abide by them.

That's the point.

It's best practices. Not law.

[sailorboy1]

FYI - there are LOTS of stuff than don't have a law covering them. In these cases courts will start looking for some type of accepted guidelines/standards. In those cases the guides may as well be law.

maybe this will be enough to stop an effort to "win" a forum thread (not much chance I know)

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Chotu

But...it's not the law because ALL laws are able to be read for free by all people obliged to abide by them.
That's the point.
It's best practices. Not law.

Bullshti!
The U.S. Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) is freely available on line.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46
The United States Statutes at Large can be obtained, in paper format, by purchase from the Superintendent of Documents, or at any Federal Depository Library

As is the Canadian Construction Standards for Small Vessels (TP 1332 E).
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...2-menu-521.htm

[ramblinrod]

Yes, if an ill conceived boat modification hurts someone or damages their property and you find yourself in front of a judge because of it, I will guarantee you that the applicable marine standards will be referred to, and if the system in question is found non-compliant, and an expert witness indicates the incident would not have occurred had it been, who do you think will he found responsible? Hint, not the injured party, nor the judge, the prosecutor, or defence attorney.

As many people say, “My boat, my money.”

Absolutely correct, until the finding is for the injured party, and then it won’t be your boat and your money anymore, it will be theirs.

That’s the funny thing about taking responsibility for something (like a boat mod); one doesn’t get to pick and choose what aspects of responsibility are in their favour and ignore the rest. If one takes responsibility for decisions to reduce cost, they also take responsibility for those decisions should they hurt someone. By complying with applicable standards, one reduces their exposure to these risks, as they have the support of a professional technical body. Deviate from the standards, and one will find themselves, out swinging in the breeze all alone, attempting to explain to those 100 times smarter, why they shouldn’t have to make the injured party whole again (to the extent possible).

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Bullshti!
The U.S. Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) is freely available on line.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46
The United States Statutes at Large can be obtained, in paper format, by purchase from the Superintendent of Documents, or at any Federal Depository Library

As is the Canadian Construction Standards for Small Vessels (TP 1332 E).
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...2-menu-521.htm

Gord your post makes me feel like you may have misinterpreted what chotu posted .
You linked to some regulations that apply to various vessels and as he said they are freely available . ( ie: you don't have to pay money to see them.
My confusion is your first word. The rest of your post agrees and provides the evidentiary links . This is if I haven't missed something that has been overshadowed by some of the other useless chatter in the thread.

[ramblinrod]

Yes, if an ill conceived boat modification hurts someone or damages their property and you find yourself in front of a judge because of it, I will guarantee you that the applicable marine standards will be referred to, and if the system in question is found non-compliant, and an expert witness indicates the incident would not have occurred had it been, who do you think will he found responsible? Hint, not the injured party, nor the judge, the prosecutor, or defense attorney.

As many people say, “My boat, my money.”

Absolutely correct, until the finding is for the injured party, and then it won’t be your boat and your money anymore, it will be theirs.

That’s the funny thing about taking responsibility for something (like a boat mod); one doesn’t get to pick and choose what aspects of responsibility are in their favour and ignore the rest. If one takes responsibility for decisions to reduce cost, they also take responsibility for those decisions should they hurt someone. By complying with applicable standards, one reduces their exposure to these risks, as they have the support of a professional technical body. Deviate from the standards, and one will find themselves, out swinging in the breeze all alone, attempting to explain to those 100 times smarter, why they shouldn’t have to make the injured party whole again (to the extent possible).

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

When you get tired of fixing your installed diesel generator more than using it, get a Honda.

I do understand that you have a bad experience with your diesel genset but that is not typical. I never had any failure. I agree that it requires a good quality genset; I like my Northern Lights 6kW but also my Onan (now Cummins) 8kW

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I do understand that you have a bad experience with your diesel genset but that is not typical. I never had any failure. I agree that it requires a good quality genset; I like my Northern Lights 6kW but also my Onan (now Cummins) 8kW

My experience has been like Jedi, my diesel genset has been very reliable. It's a Phasor 6.5kw based on a Kubota. There are certainly some gensets that have a terrible reputation on cruising boats, like the F -P ones.
I've been in cruisers anchorages where cruisers were sharing a taxi to take their Honda 2000s in for repair. All mechanical beasts on boat require maintance.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

I simply don’t understand why some are being so overly sensitive to the suggestions that anyone contemplating enclosing a gasoline engine aboard may wish to consider applicable marine standards.

Because . . .

1. You're not making suggestions but lecturing, not specifically citing which marine standards may apply to the application being discussed, and not using relevant examples. But maybe there a few reading along that aren't aware of the hazards of smoking cigarettes while transferring gasoline, etc.

2. You (and Gord) repeatedly refer to the ABYC standards but have thus far failed to specify how they apply to a portable gas-powered generator, and whether or not such standards are enforceable either as a matter of law or (insurance) contract. I think most people are well aware that if negligence is found to have occurred it is legally actionable and also potential grounds for an insurer to deny coverage. ABYC standards can certainly be used as a way to establish such a determination, but it hardly answers the question of how those standards may apply in this case.

3. The enclosures that posters have suggested and cited links to are either designed to be removed while a portable generator is running, or at least purport to have adequate ventilation. In either case they may or may not violate ABYC standards, but you haven't yet established this. This could be helpful and even somewhat on topic.