Honda 2000 built in.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t think you guys are understanding or perhaps you may just not want to.
The title of this thread is Honda 2000 built in. It is not Honda 2000 portable
If or when you “build it in” it’s not a portable generator anymore, it becomes subject to the rules and regulations of a built in generator, cause you “built it in”

Now why am I adamant about that? It’s because many people read these threads, you may be astonished how many if you knew, and we can’t or shouldn’t let them go away with the understanding that doing so isn’t first illegal in the US without meeting a bunch of regs, at least one I maintain that you can’t unless you get a statement from the manufacturer, and if you don’t it would most likely invalidate any Insurence if there were an incident.

Then lastly it’s against forum policy if not actual rules to allow posts that propose or support doing something illegal, and while I’m no marine generator expert, I have been in Aviation maintenance for decades and can tell you that a CFR, is a CFR and that ignorance is no excuse for the law.

I thought the OP made it clear what he meant by "built-in." Despite the thread title, I don't believe it was as you suggest, but rather ways of storing it above decks.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Nice try, no cigar.

ABYC standards are very clear on this matter.

Marine standard application cannot be “implied”.

They are very specific and reference very concise definitions of what they refer and apply to.

Based on my study, training, practical application, and certifications, I know that the exemption you referenced has absolutely nothing to do with portable generators.

But if there is a case where a member is unsure if or how a standard applies, they can request an official interpretation.

Thus far I'm not seeing anything to do with portable generators in the ABYC standards that Gord cited, which is why I've simply asked you to present the ABYC (or CFR) standards/regs which apply. Either that or confirm that they don't apply and simply advise people of best practices. I've read and heard many techs & non-techs advise against having these portable units onboard, but this is the first I've heard that they violate published standards or enforceable regulations. I'm sure they could violate such regs, but so could just about anything -- most certainly incl. propane -- that is installed or utilized in an unsafe manner.

I just don't think you should be advising people that having such a device onboard is inherently unsafe and could subject them to negative consequences, incl. a lawsuit. Unless you can substantiate it that is, and not merely rely on your customary all-or-nothing, dogmatic approach.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Exile

I thought the OP made it clear what he meant by "built-in." Despite the thread title, I don't believe it was as you suggest, but rather ways of storing it above decks.

He did and it was pretty apparent from his opening post that shows an outside storage box.

Then the thread drifted to a focus of the title enough for the most no one disagreed that installing a honda as a “built in” is a bad idea. Yet thats what some are determined to keep addressing.

Personally I'm now only reading as an example of driving by a car crash, ..... you just have to look.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by weavis

Just one vital question.

What beer?

I think it´s time somebody invites me
Hahaha, I am working my budd off trying to nail it all down.
I hope I will make it through the pages till the point where I have a nice GEN Honda 2200i
You think there is hope this is going to be soon

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Exile

I thought the OP made it clear what he meant by "built-in." Despite the thread title, I don't believe it was as you suggest, but rather ways of storing it above decks.

No, storage is not built in.
We have several who started referencing building one in, in the thread Newhaul I believe said he is going to in his Lazarette, then we had examples of exhaust systems, which don’t have anything at all to do with storage.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I think the Honda generator and its equivalents are just brilliant, really hard to justify the cost of diesel built in genset when a little Honda can fill the needs of many boaters like me.

Just curious, has anyone built one of these into their boat taking into consideration the petrol (gas) issues ,or just mounted one permanently in the cockpit area ? any pictures?

This isn’t ambiguous to me. Permanent mounting by definition isn’t portable.

Now I’m not trying to be argumentative or a stick in the mud, and a built in is fine, just as long as you understand the regulatory hurdles you have to go through in order for it to first be legal, second to protect your Insurence and thirdly to be safe.
Oh add a blower to the list of items you will need, I just thought of that, gasoline engines below decks have to have a blower I believe to exhaust fumes prior to starting the engine.

Maybe it would be helpful to list items that need to be made compliant to build one in?

[sailorboy1]

A case where a photo is better than 9 pages of thread posts

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Exile

Thus far I'm not seeing anything to do with portable generators in the ABYC standards that Gord cited, which is why I've simply asked you to present the ABYC (or CFR) standards/regs which apply. Either that or confirm that they don't apply and simply advise people of best practices. I've read and heard many techs & non-techs advise against having these portable units onboard, but this is the first I've heard that they violate published standards or enforceable regulations. I'm sure they could violate such regs, but so could just about anything -- most certainly incl. propane -- that is installed or utilized in an unsafe manner.

I just don't think you should be advising people that having such a device onboard is inherently unsafe and could subject them to negative consequences, incl. a lawsuit. Unless you can substantiate it that is, and not merely rely on your customary all-or-nothing, dogmatic approach.

Well that’s the thing.

There are a lot of standards.

I have already advised that there are many that apply to gasoline fuel systems and engines.

I do this for a living and charge for my technical consulting services.

If you do not wish to pay for these services, and wish to investigate on your own, I have already advised how you can do so.

If you have signed up for standards access and haven't found any applicable standards, you simply haven’t looked hard enough.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

This isn’t ambiguous to me. Permanent mounting by definition isn’t portable.

Now I’m not trying to be argumentative or a stick in the mud, and a built in is fine, just as long as you understand the regulatory hurdles you have to go through in order for it to first be legal, second to protect your Insurence and thirdly to be safe.
Oh add a blower to the list of items you will need, I just thought of that, gasoline engines below decks have to have a blower I believe to exhaust fumes prior to starting the engine.

Maybe it would be helpful to list items that need to be made compliant to build one in?

Well it is, I may not of explained it clear enough, I assumed (wrongly obviously) that people understood what I was saying. I thought the picture alone was explanatory enough ,obviously not.

Posts that followed attempted to clarify better due to the bum fight that took place.

After reading back through my posts I'm not sure how I could be more clear ,interpret the way you wish. I just assumed (wrongly again ) that most of us were smart enough to realize I wasnt suggesting pumping co2 into the boat or storing fuel down inside.

To be honest the thread is a great example of how a few can often derail a decent conversation amongst guys that share common interests, egos and winning become the thread ,the original topic forgotten.

I'm seriously wondering if cruisers forum is a productive way to spend my time anymore, I know in real life I'd brush some of these guys pretty quickly, so why waste time here. Many guys worth listening to just dont participate any more, they've obviously come to the conclusion time is better spent elsewhere.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Well it is, I may not of explained it clear enough, I assumed (wrongly obviously) that people understood what I was saying. I thought the picture alone was explanatory enough ,obviously not.

Posts that followed attempted to clarify better due to the bum fight that took place.

After reading back through my posts I'm not sure how I could be more clear ,interpret the way you wish. I just assumed (wrongly again ) that most of us were smart enough to realize I wasnt suggesting pumping co2 into the boat or storing fuel down inside.

To be honest the thread is a great example of how a few can often derail a decent conversation amongst guys that share common interests, egos and winning become the thread ,the original topic forgotten.

I'm seriously wondering if cruisers forum is a productive way to spend my time anymore, I know in real life I'd brush some of these guys pretty quickly, so why waste time here. Many guys worth listening to just dont participate any more, they've obviously come to the conclusion time is better spent elsewhere.

Asked and answered.

If you didn’t wish people to understand you meant “built in”, I suggest not using the term “built in”.

If you did wish people to understand you meant “externally mounted” I recommend using the term “externally mounted.”

If one wishes to be clear, all they have to do is state what they mean, clearly,

PS, the gas of concern here is “carbon monoxide” (an invisible poisonous gas that can kill you) vs “carbon dioxide” (the gas put in soft drinks to make them fizz).

PSS, whether “built in” to an existing part of the boat, or “built in” to an extra enclosure added to the boat (as shown in the photo) as far as the standards are concerned, it is a gasoline fuel system and a gasoline engine in an enclosed space.

[sailorboy1]

Come on people the pictures were right there! Are you seriously saying it was too hard for you to figure out? Do you understand what you are saying about yourself? Not to mention how many times it got stated?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Come on people the pictures were right there! Are you seriously saying it was too hard for you to figure out? Do you understand what you are saying about yourself? Not to mention how many times it got stated?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Just curious, has anyone built one of these into their boat taking into consideration the petrol (gas) issues

Some of us can read and not just look at the pretty pictures.
This is a portion of the thread starting post.
Now maybe he didn’t mean what he said, but what he said was awfully plain.
The several others in the thread ran with it and started discussing building one in, how there are remote starter kits etc. at least one plainly stated he was going to install one in his Lazarette.

[sailorboy1]

Cant look anymore, i know how to prevent

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Some of us can read and not just look at the pretty pictures.
This is a portion of the thread starting post.
Now maybe he didn’t mean what he said, but what he said was awfully plain.
The several others in the thread ran with it and started discussing building one in, how there are remote starter kits etc. at least one plainly stated he was going to install one in his Lazarette.

Not exactly the unit im looking to place in my lazerette is a diesel air cooled unit. I even stated that in my post .
Now on a columbia defender the lazerette is designed to have an outboard engine mounted in it and the fuel tank that runs it was factory installed . Im just converting to diesel instead of the factory gasoline.