450: Just signed on a new 450s!

[Pascals Wager]

I've only done this once and it wasn't down wind. With the lazy bag rolled up the Lazy Jacks are still connected to it and essentially in the correct rigged position. I then loosen them and pull them forward towards the mast out of the way as I expect most do on a long sail. When reefing I reset the Lazy Jacks but did not unroll the bag, Easing the main halyard slowly as the reefing line is pulled in allowed the Lazy Jacks to support the loose sail. Down wind there may not be enough support perhaps?

My bag is the standard now dirty white, it came with a line of shock cord hanging from one of the eyelets at the top back corner of the bag and I had no idea what it was for. After tearing my bag, resewing and just last week tearing it again I have worked it out. The sun long since ate the chord so will run a loose piece between the eyelets and behind the topping lift to prevent the reefing lines catching the corners.

(Air Draft is from the water line to top of mast not from the keel)

[PaulinOz]

Quote: (Air Draft is from the water line to top of mast not from the keel)

You are correct I got that bit wrong.

[davedindubai]

Thanks PW.
So far I’m finding...
Reeling downwind: possible in very light winds but no chance getting the clew of the reef down to the boom in anything over 20knots.

So we always head up into wind. This certainly makes things more interesting especially crossing the Atlantic we always had at least 3m swell and reefed every night regardless of wind. I put in reef 1 at 23 knots true (or less) which is quite windy when trying to arse around up on deck with lazy lines or the lazy bag.

In the end, I gave up on the bag, removed the lines, rolled the bag away and tied the lines direct to the boom. This wasn’t ideal but did mean easier reefing and I left the bag rolled up until we got to St Lucia.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

Thanks PW.
So far I’m finding...
Reeling downwind: possible in very light winds but no chance getting the clew of the reef down to the boom in anything over 20knots.

So we always head up into wind. This certainly makes things more interesting especially crossing the Atlantic we always had at least 3m swell and reefed every night regardless of wind. I put in reef 1 at 23 knots true (or less) which is quite windy when trying to arse around up on deck with lazy lines or the lazy bag.

In the end, I gave up on the bag, removed the lines, rolled the bag away and tied the lines direct to the boom. This wasn’t ideal but did mean easier reefing and I left the bag rolled up until we got to St Lucia.

I thought L450 has downhaul installed as standard ?

Or downhaul does no good?

[davedindubai]

There’s no downhaul as such but the reefing lines pull the sail down. The prob I find is that they pull it down from the tack and not the clew. Especially downwind.

[rom]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

There’s no downhaul as such but the reefing lines pull the sail down. The prob I find is that they pull it down from the tack and not the clew. Especially downwind.

FWIW I converted my so called automatic reefs to manual, works much better, total control over the tack & clew...

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by rom

FWIW I converted my so called automatic reefs to manual, works much better, total control over the tack & clew...

I’m thinking to do the same. Did you add a sail tie in the middle?

[rom]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I’m thinking to do the same. Did you add a sail tie in the middle?

I am not sure what you mean but the answer is probably "no" as I added nothing special ...

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rom

I am not sure what you mean but the answer is probably "no" as I added nothing special ...

how did you do it ?

I have same issue on L 400.

[rom]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

how did you do it ?

I have same issue on L 400.

Basically it is about removing the pulley(s) on the luff so that reefing lines go directly to the winch after lowering the clew. Reefing lines are therefore much shorter with manual reefs. And then replace that pulley by a hook that you can clip somewhere to the boom or mast. I use the pad eyes I have on each side of the gooseneck.

Problem you will face is the sheaves inside the boom are positioned to redirect the reefing lines to the pulleys on the luff. All you need is to reposition those sheaves from the upper to the lower bar. You will need a hammer and an old screw driver to remove the bars holding the sheaves, should take you a couple of hours to do the conversion.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rom

Basically it is about removing the pulley(s) on the luff so that reefing lines go directly to the winch after lowering the clew. Reefing lines are therefore much shorter with manual reefs. And then replace that pulley by a hook that you can clip somewhere to the boom or mast. I use the pad eyes I have on each side of the gooseneck.

Problem you will face is the sheaves inside the boom are positioned to redirect the reefing lines to the pulleys on the luff. All you need is to reposition those sheaves from the upper to the lower bar. You will need a hammer and an old screw driver to remove the bars holding the sheaves, should take you a couple of hours to do the conversion.

ok, i see thanks. Do you need downhaul or sail comes down every time from gravity force and clew pull only , when reefing downwind?

[Darksyde]

There is a downhaul line attached to the first car.
This I made by Lagoon

[rom]

I have the downhaul and use it. It is almost necessary for boats with high boom / fly bridge.

[rom]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

ok, i see thanks. Do you need downhaul or sail comes down every time from gravity force and clew pull only , when reefing downwind?

Sorry I just realized I am not answering Dave's questions and yours ... I am not reefing downwind as the result has always been quite messy for me. I am always reefing 45°AWA with genoa and rarely need to start the engine. I do not need the downhaul for that ! The manual reef modification I was talking about was a little OT and will not help if you really want to reef downwind...

[Bean Counter]

Reefing downwind in over 25 knots. Have done this a couple of times with just two of us, first time was when second reef line parted and we needed to take it down to third reef in big seas and cross swell at night, very messy outcome and it took about half an hour to get it tidied up. The second time we lowered the sail a foot at a time, keeping the halyard firm whilst winching in the reefline until there was good tension on the leech, then another foot or so until the luff reef point gets close to the boom. It does not look pretty and if your boom is out too far the battens will bend forward around the side stay as the leech gets loose. It does come down but a pretty slow exercise, but you won't have to leave the helm area to get it done. When we did this we ran both engines and furled the genoa in case something bad happens like the autopilot being overwhelmed. In the wee hours using electric winches sucks a lot of juice and sometimes the instruments shut down which is what happened the first time (since fixed this with a Victron DC - DC voltage stabilizer)