450: Just signed on a new 450s!

[Pascals Wager]

Hi Stefan and welcome, I'm currently installing my washing machine this week, it's 600W, 540D and 870H. It's the depth that is the restriction, also the port fwd cabin door is 500W so you have to remove the door sill just to get the washer into the cabin. It's a tight fit. I think lagoon built the boat around the washing machine... 2016 450S.

[davedindubai]

Good morning.
I will get around to answering the questions but we have about as much internet as we do wind.... not a lot!

Hayley has gone wild on her Instagram so please feel free to check out the boat on there. Also she's done a walk thru on @thedaleyadventure Instagram page.

It's 9am, after our first night sail (motor) and we are both grinning from ear to ear!

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by StefanS

Hi all, this is my first post here!
Dave - congratulations on the boat -- fascinating thread and a great resource for us looking to take the plunge in the future. I've been looking at the 450S or 42 sometime in the future.

Quite a few questions for Dave if you don't mind!

- Sorry if I missed a post but did you get the AC option in the end? If not does a future retrofit look feasible?

- Does the space for the washing machine fit a full size (60cm wide) washer/washer-dryer, or just the compact marine sized 50cm-wide units?

- Thanks for posting the insurance rates you were quoted. Are these fully comprehensive for the boat and wondering what the verifications are like on your previous sailing experience? Did you have you produce a log book or show certifications? Really just curious to know how things work on this for a first-time cat owner.

- Wondering why you decided to go for UK flagged (rather than VAT-free Guernsey or Gibraltar)? I gather you're not an EU resident and will be heading off to the Caribbean soon anyway? I apologise if it's indiscreet to ask such questions -- but I'm also an expat and looking at a similar plan, buy in Europe VAT free, use in the Med for a while and then head west...

Good luck with the electrics work -- I think you made a great decision going with Victron as it opens up a great upgrade path to lifepo4 batteries in the future, when hopefully the prices will come down substantially!

best,

Stefan

Hi Stefan,

No probs, I'll try to answer as best I can.

We didn't go for AC mainly due to the cost from a Lagoon. YES, you can retro fit and we will most likely do this in the Caribbean where it's most needed. So far the temp difference has been really noticeable down in the hulls due to less sunlight and being lower in the cool Atlantic waters.

The insurance company forward all our docs to the underwriter for approval and we had no problems. I didn't have to provide a log book but they did require certs.

Regarding the flag, I think I did it mostly because I wanted to fly the Red Ensign. I'm proud and wanted London on the back of the boat (as long as it didn't cost me anything!). We are sailing back to Dubai so VAT is not due. As I understand you can apply for a TA which gives 18 months stay in Europe before you are liable. We plan to leave in November.

I'll do a separate post on the electrics install. It's finished but not finished. Bloody boats! I literally got to a point where I said 'sod it, we're off'. I'm typing this as I sit on watch without a sole for miles and know I made the right decision - even if my generator doesn't produce 240v [emoji20].

More later...

[davedindubai]

Hi guys,

We have now completed our first week at sea and just about getting into the swing of things so I thought I'd update the thread with a few pics of the solar tower we added. Just to remind everyone, I've added 3x 335w panels on 50mm ss tube with Victron electronics inc 5kva inverter.

The inverter is amazing and I'm so grateful for the advice and recommendation. The other day we had the water maker running, PC and TV on, charging some devices while microwaving last nights lasagna! We fitted a shelf under the stairs and it's mounted in there. The 'S' has a huge void under our helm which is dry and accessible via the stbd sun bed locker. We made the hole from the locker into the void full size.

Cabling was relatively simple as its all stbd side. We kept runs to a minimum and soldered all connections.

7 days isn't really long enough to get a full understanding of our usage but so far, no issues. Midday we are seeing 750-850w from the panels if the batteries need it. We made some mistakes which we will be putting right such as which input to put the water heater on the inverter. After a week of use we are going to swap it from the AC only output to the same as the rest of our 220v. Then to avoid draining our batteries we will need to remember to turn off the water heater but as its turned out, I check the batteries about 100 times a day!

I'm sure I'll get questions about the underside of the panels so here you go. I've fitted 3mm gloss white aluminium panels to the underside with a 10mm spacer to provide an air gap. LOTS of thought went into this! Ultimately it was Hayley's idea and my job was to make it happen without losing efficiency or looking ugly. On the whole, it seems like efficiency is unaffected and the reflection of the sea and sun on the underside is a really nice side effect. The 3mm panels probably weight a few kilos each and as we've had more rain than Ibiza has seen all year I can testify that they don't hold water.

The hand rail is all new. I wanted full handrails along the aft and it's a great place to install the BBQ too. Plumbing for the BBQ isn't finished yet as I couldn't get fittings in Gibraltar so I'm having to sit the bottle on deck just while I cook for now.

Here's some pics...

Attachment 1
Hope you guys like because we love it!

[Ratel]

Looking great!

Please take a picture of the inverter, showing its position by the stairs

[Steve_C]

Looks great Dave, I am really glad you were finally able to give us an update!

How are do you like the dark grey on the highfield tender so far? Is it Hot?

Do you plan on an outboard mount and a fish cleaning table on the back rail?

I would also be curious to hear how you like the helm seat, I am really tall and found it more cramped than I would prefer. But everything is a compromise right! I think the Sport Top version still has enough advantages over the flybridge that it would be my preference. Both have their appeal to me and I would probably be happy with either.

Have fun Dave and Thanks again for the update.

[PaulinOz]

Congratulations mate.

[bjs1979]

Nice work guys, keep the updates coming they are awesome

[davedindubai]

It's not easy getting pics of the inverter but much easier than my poor electrician had actually fitting it.

You can see in the pic we enlarged the hole thru from the locker to the void and fitted a shelf that the back of the inverter is mounted to.


I'm so pleased with the electrical install and if anyone ever needs work doing then Dave and Dillon of Marine Electric in Gibraltar went miles past the extra mile to make sure everything worked properly.

Dave the electrician flew up to Ibiza yesterday to sort a couple of our issues so we are finally 99% operational. Of course nothing is ever perfect. Our Paguro generator STOP button on the remote doesn't work so I need to find a Paguro dealer in Palma when we get there. The big issue we have had and why our electrician flew up was the Victron inverter was not allowing the Paguro generator to take over supplying the 220v. We were having to trick the inverter by plugging in a hair dryer direct to the genset for the generator to 'latch' to the inverter. Our electrician bought a PC interface and the software to communicate with the inverter, changed some settings and in 3 minutes all was working perfectly.

[davedindubai]

I love the tender and the grey is fine. All dinghys do get hot during the day and wet at night but that's part of life at sea. Finding somewhere to get ashore is the big challenge!

Yes, I've got an outboard mount which sits under the outboard lift (also MOB lift) but I've not fitted it yet.

We are looking for a table to fit on the rails. We left plenty of room for a nice big table and something around 800mm wide by 400mm deep would be perfect. If we would have stayed in Gib then it would have been completed but we wanted to get going.

Regarding the helm, I think it's hard to find the perfect layout. We are still getting used to where to stand and sit and slowly getting our roles and it seems that the helm is Hayley's domain. I do love the Bimini sunroof tho, the visibility is excellent and the surrounds are an absolute must, we have only had the stbd side of the enclosure open so far and choose to keep the front down even tho the weather is perfect it keeps you out of the breeze. Helming the boat under engine is a piece of cake with a view of each corner and very responsive engines. It's early days but so far, we are both very pleased with everything.

[Ratel]

Excellent! Thanks for the info

[Pascals Wager]

Looks a nice install Dave, a shame they still place the S cockpit over the top of the F cockpit. Wasted space and unecessary weight with hidden steps.

[davedindubai]

I thought as people have asked and the 'S' versus 'F' decision is a difficult one that I'd offer some insights on our experience so far.

The 'S' or spor top version is more targeted to cruising couples and I'm guessing is Lagoons answer to the popularity of the FP Helia which was a boat we seriously considered.

Positives:
Close location to the cockpit and galley means communication is easy which has been great underway at meal times or when guests are relaxing in the shade.
Lower boom height makes access to the main sail easy which I've found has been important for jobs like sail bag ties, main halyard, jammed reefing lines, rigging a preventer.
All lines are led back to the cockpit and are easy to control.
Weather protection is perfect. With the enclosure zipped up we are completely protected.
2x bimini sun roofs offer great visibility of both sails.
The large sun pad on the port side is the most popular place for catching rays and seems to always have sun and not shaded by the boom. It's also a very nice place to keep watch from.
Helm seat is perfect for 2.
The fly bridge top behind the helm seat and inside of the bimini enclosure offers much needed storage. We have our grab bag, life jackets, paperwork, binoculars, compass, horn etc all easily accessible from here.
Visibility is perfect for all 4 corners of the boat yet still elevated enough for a long distance 360° view.
Access from helm forward feels safe without any steps although I plan to add a hand rail either side of the helm entrance.

Negatives:
The loss of the flybridge social area.
The space between the helm seat and wheel means access forward must be done via the stern if someone is at the helm.
The helm bimini is an expensive must buy option, it provides much needed shelter from sun, wind and rain and also protection from falling down the hole when accessing the boom.
The stbd winch for the Genoa furling line, Genoa and spinnaker halyards is very high. I'm 5'10 and I wouldn't want it any higher. For women this has been a struggle.

In summary, I think for a cruising couple the Spor Top is a great choice.

[Krabimike]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I thought as people have asked and the 'S' versus 'F' decision is a difficult one that I'd offer some insights on our experience so far.

The 'S' or spor top version is more targeted to cruising couples and I'm guessing is Lagoons answer to the popularity of the FP Helia which was a boat we seriously considered.

Positives:
Close location to the cockpit and galley means communication is easy which has been great underway at meal times or when guests are relaxing in the shade.
Lower boom height makes access to the main sail easy which I've found has been important for jobs like sail bag ties, main halyard, jammed reefing lines, rigging a preventer.
All lines are led back to the cockpit and are easy to control.
Weather protection is perfect. With the enclosure zipped up we are completely protected.
2x bimini sun roofs offer great visibility of both sails.
The large sun pad on the port side is the most popular place for catching rays and seems to always have sun and not shaded by the boom. It's also a very nice place to keep watch from.
Helm seat is perfect for 2.
The fly bridge top behind the helm seat and inside of the bimini enclosure offers much needed storage. We have our grab bag, life jackets, paperwork, binoculars, compass, horn etc all easily accessible from here.
Visibility is perfect for all 4 corners of the boat yet still elevated enough for a long distance 360° view.
Access from helm forward feels safe without any steps although I plan to add a hand rail either side of the helm entrance.

Negatives:
The loss of the flybridge social area.
The space between the helm seat and wheel means access forward must be done via the stern if someone is at the helm.
The helm bimini is an expensive must buy option, it provides much needed shelter from sun, wind and rain and also protection from falling down the hole when accessing the boom.
The stbd winch for the Genoa furling line, Genoa and spinnaker halyards is very high. I'm 5'10 and I wouldn't want it any higher. For women this has been a struggle.

In summary, I think for a cruising couple the Spor Top is a great choice.

Hey Dave if you leave your sun pads out, i would suggest running a small line over them from the rail back to the helm area. ( which i normally do) We forgot to bring them in and a wind came up while we were diving and they were gone! all that was left was the plastic guide thar you slide through the keep. it riped the material right off the guides. Trying to get new orginals is not going to be fun or cheap!

[PaulinOz]

"Trying to get new orginals is not going to be fun or cheap!" Would not bother, custom made ones will be better quality and I am betting no more expensive than OEM.