Lavezzi 40: Possible only replacing turnbuckles on diamond rigg without pulling the mast

[CaptainRivet]

Hi,
Is it possible to only change the turnbuckles on the diamond rigg one by one without pulling the mast?
My Lavezzi was very little used by the one former owner !motorboat guy who had 2 pershing 65 and 70) but he taped off the turnbuckles with duct tape. Besides the chrome coming off I see a tiny bit crevice corrosion on 2 of them when I pulled the duct tape off.
I wanna change them all but don't wanna pull the mast. Rest of rigg locks good and solid.
Same with the one turnbuckles on the martingale.
Turnbuckles on sidestays already changed.
If yes how do I have to do it?

[fxykty]

The diamonds are (probably, depending on your exact rig geometry) only used to keep the mast in column and possibly pre-bent. Loosening and removing one or more or all diamond stays will not cause the mast to fall down.

Change them in pairs (or threes if you also have forward diamond stays (they’re the ones that do pre-bend)) so that you can most easily replicate the tension needed for the new stays.

[SailingHarmonie]

Duct tape. Sigh.

Normally, chrome plated turnbuckles are bronze underneath. Bronze is not subject to any kind of significant “crevice corrosion”. Loss of the chrome plating is cosmetic.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Duct tape. Sigh.

Normally, chrome plated turnbuckles are bronze underneath. Bronze is not subject to any kind of significant “crevice corrosion”. Loss of the chrome plating is cosmetic.

Well what do you expect from a motorboat guy...he had 65 and 70Pershing and the "sailing" cat...2 of 3 reefs didn't work in test sailing, could not show us how to reef it because he never did since 2006...he only sailed in perfect condition 10-20kn...
Removed duct tape and the splints and replaced with sizing wire, so no protective taping needed.
Crome plating is gone....as you said corrosion on rhem is not significant. How do you protect now the bronze???

[Mickeyrouse]

I’ve replaced all standing rigging one piece at a time. Obviously it means a lot of going up and down the mast, and rigging temporay rigging (NOT for sailing) in the meantime, but it’s doable and cheaper than using a rigger’s monkey.

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Hi,
Is it possible to only change the turnbuckles on the diamond rigg one by one without pulling the mast?
My Lavezzi was very little used by the one former owner !motorboat guy who had 2 pershing 65 and 70) but he taped off the turnbuckles with duct tape. Besides the chrome coming off I see a tiny bit crevice corrosion on 2 of them when I pulled the duct tape off.
I wanna change them all but don't wanna pull the mast. Rest of rigg locks good and solid.
Same with the one turnbuckles on the martingale.
Turnbuckles on sidestays already changed.
If yes how do I have to do it?

It's absolutely possible. Just ease them off one pair at a time, hopefully the turnbuckles aren't frozen. I recently had to cut some lagoon 450 diamond shrouds with the rig up during a rerig, with an angle grinder - THAT was exciting.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

It's absolutely possible. Just ease them off one pair at a time, hopefully the turnbuckles aren't frozen. I recently had to cut some lagoon 450 diamond shrouds with the rig up during a rerig, with an angle grinder - THAT was exciting.

Did it whip around cutting limbs etc.?

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

It's absolutely possible. Just ease them off one pair at a time, hopefully the turnbuckles aren't frozen. I recently had to cut some lagoon 450 diamond shrouds with the rig up during a rerig, with an angle grinder - THAT was exciting.

Well i have double diamond, the lower one after treating over weeks with antiseize and some brute force got unseized but the higher ones seized, no chance. Assume angle grider action too.
@Yachtrigger whats the best way to cut? Like 10cm above turnbuckle and wire strand by strand so wire lengthens and remaining rip?

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Well i have double diamond, the lower one after treating over weeks with antiseize and some brute force got unseized but the higher ones seized, no chance. Assume angle grider action too.
@Yachtrigger whats the best way to cut? Like 10cm above turnbuckle and wire strand by strand so wire lengthens and remaining rip?

I'm a little uncomfortable recommending this, but... yes, essentially you cut the wire about a foot above the turnbuckle, strand by strand with the grinder - you'll know as you get through each strand, its more like group of strands - big bangs... and yes it will unlay. I tie a rolling hitch with a piece of 1/4" line a few feet above and below the cut point so it doesn't whip me. I curt one side until there's just the center core remaining, then switch to the other side, so it's not all coming off one side at once.

Ease the lower shrouds too, so they aren't trying to straighten the mast even more than the section itself wants to straighten already.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

I'm a little uncomfortable recommending this, but... yes, essentially you cut the wire about a foot above the turnbuckle, strand by strand with the grinder - you'll know as you get through each strand, its more like group of strands - big bangs... and yes it will unlay. I tie a rolling hitch with a piece of 1/4" line a few feet above and below the cut point so it doesn't whip me. I curt one side until there's just the center core remaining, then switch to the other side, so it's not all coming off one side at once.

Ease the lower shrouds too, so they aren't trying to straighten the mast even more than the section itself wants to straighten already.

Thank you. That’s what I thought to do.
Did you try an alternative way to cut the turnbuckle alongside the seized thread, first the top thread with the swaged wire terminal starting from the top end of the turnbuckle. That’s what I do on seized ball joint heads on classic cars which is quite similar under pressure. Normally along one side is enough that at around 2/3 of thread length the pressure rips the threaded part, in this case the swaged terminal, out of the turnbuckle. If one side is not enough you cut exactly on the opposite side a 2nd time along the thread

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Thank you. That’s what I thought to do.
Did you try an alternative way to cut the turnbuckle alongside the seized thread, first the top thread with the swaged wire terminal starting from the top end of the turnbuckle. That’s what I do on seized ball joint heads on classic cars which is quite similar under pressure. Normally along one side is enough that at around 2/3 of thread length the pressure rips the threaded part, in this case the swaged terminal, out of the turnbuckle. If one side is not enough you cut exactly on the opposite side a 2nd time along the thread

My concern in doing this is twofold...
1. There is a LOT of tension on the diamonds, so much so that the old "split the turnbuckle threads" trick will highly unlikely free them up enough to release by 15 or so turns.
2. Concern that it will fail suddenly. When you cut the wire it breaks and lengthens a little slowly... not all at once. If the TB opens up I feel like it will result in greater shock load.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

My concern in doing this is twofold...
1. There is a LOT of tension on the diamonds, so much so that the old "split the turnbuckle threads" trick will highly unlikely free them up enough to release by 15 or so turns.
2. Concern that it will fail suddenly. When you cut the wire it breaks and lengthens a little slowly... not all at once. If the TB opens up I feel like it will result in greater shock load.

Make sense. So cut the wire strands it will be...
Does it make sense to partly cut one side so some pressure is allready taken off and then proceed with the other side to even reduce shock load more?
Loosen or cutting the lower diamonds before cutting the upper one? Or completely do the lower ones first and replace and then upper ones?
I also have at the diamonds the forward struts with wire, first or last to cut of the diamonds?

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Make sense. So cut the wire strands it will be...
Does it make sense to partly cut one side so some pressure is allready taken off and then proceed with the other side to even reduce shock load more?
Loosen or cutting the lower diamonds before cutting the upper one? Or completely do the lower ones first and replace and then upper ones?
I also have at the diamonds the forward struts with wire, first or last to cut of the diamonds?

Yes I said in my earlier post that I partially cut each side, not all the way through on one.
Exactly which turnbuckles in your rig are frozen?