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Old 07-03-2021, 14:31   #1
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rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

Hi all,
I just contracted a 2009 FP Lavezzi and the rigg is still oem, means 2009. Cat was just sailed in the Caribean and only owners boat, no charter.

Due to rigger in the St. Martin rigg is ok and the insurance survey May 2019 state the same with the hint after 7 years there should be a rigg check yearly but my insurance request a rigg change to also cover the rigg. But they don't tell me what needs to be changed.

Is it ok if I just change the caps and shrouds? Apperently thats what the surveyor told the broker and he told me but I am not sure if this is true...


Was on the yard since March 2019 and got full peel and osmisis treatment and new gelcode too (polypat yard with bill and guarantee). Done in Nov. 2019 but then fromer Austrialian owner couldn't get to the boat, so there won't be any condition change of the rigg since May 2019 survey.
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Old 07-03-2021, 22:29   #2
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

They will expect everything that holds up the mast to be replaced, so all shrouds and forestay. Tangs, through bolts, toggles, turnbuckles, pins, chainplates possibly as well.

If your mast has diamond stays then those as well.

Do you have a martingale stay (the cable tensioned over the A-frame on the front beam)? If yes, that one too.
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Old 07-03-2021, 23:43   #3
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

Why speculate? Contact your insurer or representative and INSIST they define “replace the rig”. If they can’t define the terms on their own policy you had better find an insurer who knows their business.
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Old 07-03-2021, 23:58   #4
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
They will expect everything that holds up the mast to be replaced, so all shrouds and forestay. Tangs, through bolts, toggles, turnbuckles, pins, chainplates possibly as well.

If your mast has diamond stays then those as well.

Do you have a martingale stay (the cable tensioned over the A-frame on the front beam)? If yes, that one too.
For the first re-rig, our insurer has asked that the wire and swages to be replaced, not rigging screws, and certainly not chainplates.

However, the OP should certainly contact his insurer for clarification.
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Old 08-03-2021, 02:22   #5
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

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Why speculate? Contact your insurer or representative and INSIST they define “replace the rig”. If they can’t define the terms on their own policy you had better find an insurer who knows their business.
Well the answer was everything that holds up the mast.
So that means the deck too?
Nothing to do with know their business (they do for sure) , just a fed up lacy employee in the homeoffice....tried to bypass him but failed.

Does a martingale wire hold up the mast? It transfers loads but it doesn't hold the mast.
Same to diamond stays. If a diamond stay breaks, will the mast come immediately down? To my understanding no.
Mast is hold up by caps, shrouds and forestay.
If one of this fails it will come down immediately. And this can be changed by leaving the mast up.quite quick and reasonably costs.
From the rigger everything is ok, nothing to be changed. So i will do minimum i have to do.
But what is that exactly?
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Old 08-03-2021, 02:30   #6
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Jim View Post
Why speculate? Contact your insurer or representative and INSIST they define “replace the rig”. If they can’t define the terms on their own policy you had better find an insurer who knows their business.
Well the answer was everything that holds up the mast.
So that means the deck too?
Nothing to do with know their business (they do for sure) , just a fed up lacy employee in the homeoffice....tried to bypass him but failed.

Does a martingale wire hold up the mast? It transfers loads but it doesn't hold the mast.
Same to diamond stays. If a diamond stay breaks, will the mast come immediately down? To my understanding no.
Mast is hold up by caps, shrouds and forestay.
If one of this fails it will come down immediately. And this can be changed by leaving the mast up.
From the rigger everything is ok, nothing to be changed. So i will do minimum i have to do.
But what is that exactly?
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Old 08-03-2021, 02:43   #7
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

look, you have just spent a lot of $$s on a fairly serious trans-ocean capable boat

why are you penny pinching worrying about changing a few wires ? take your maintenance responsibilities seriously and do it right

it's obvious that everything is well overdue for replacement (which likely reflects in the price you paid). now buy yourself some peace of mind and just bring the boat up to proper spec.

(btw : rig does not include chain plates (which are part of the hull) or martingale (but this should be replaced anyway))

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Old 08-03-2021, 03:48   #8
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

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look, you have just spent a lot of $$s on a fairly serious trans-ocean capable boat

why are you penny pinching worrying about changing a few wires ? take your maintenance responsibilities seriously and do it right

it's obvious that everything is well overdue for replacement (which likely reflects in the price you paid). now buy yourself some peace of mind and just bring the boat up to proper spec.

(btw : rig does not include chain plates (which are part of the hull) or martingale (but this should be replaced anyway))

cheers,

I do and will take it seriously and yes its calculated in the deal.
my problem is time not the money. Till i am able to close the deal and rigger can work on the boat, it is end April. I need to be in ABC Island or Trinidad Tobago by end of may due to insurance cover.
Caps, Shrouds and foresstay can be done on the day i close the deal. Change all means pulling the mast, disconnecting electrics...minimum a week if all goes well and this can be done by mid May (if everthing goes well which never does). Just too tight.
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Old 08-03-2021, 03:49   #9
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
look, you have just spent a lot of $$s on a fairly serious trans-ocean capable boat

why are you penny pinching worrying about changing a few wires ? take your maintenance responsibilities seriously and do it right

it's obvious that everything is well overdue for replacement (which likely reflects in the price you paid). now buy yourself some peace of mind and just bring the boat up to proper spec.

(btw : rig does not include chain plates (which are part of the hull) or martingale (but this should be replaced anyway))

cheers,

I do and will take it seriously and yes its calculated in the deal.
my problem is time not the money. Till i am able to close the deal and rigger can work on the boat, it is end April. I need to be in ABC Island or Trinidad Tobago by end of may due to insurance cover.
Caps, Shrouds and foresstay can be done on the day i close the deal. Change all means pulling the mast, disconnecting electrics...minimum a week if all goes well and this can be done by mid May (if everthing goes well which never does). Just too tight.


2nd i wanna change the whole rigg to Dyneema and doing this myself, not to save money but be able to fix the rigg in remote places myself. This takes time to and cannot be done that shorttermed. So I wanna put minimum I must now in steel and do everything proper in dyneema as soon as I can find some rigger who does this together with me in a huricane save place. if you know one that would be highly appreciated.
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Old 08-03-2021, 03:56   #10
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

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Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
I do and will take it seriously and yes its calculated in the deal.
my problem is time not the money. Till i am able to close the deal and rigger can work on the boat, it is end April. I need to be in ABC Island or Trinidad Tobago by end of may due to insurance cover.
Caps, Shrouds and foresstay can be done on the day i close the deal. Change all means pulling the mast, disconnecting electrics...minimum a week if all goes well and this can be done by mid May (if everthing goes well which never does). Just too tight.
I agree with Chrisr on doing the job right. It won't be done again for another 7 or 10 years.
If the timing is too tight, then change out what ypu think needs to be done now and self insure the rig for the short trip south.
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Old 08-03-2021, 11:57   #11
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

I understand your timetable and constraints, but would like to complicate your problem little bit more��
The rig renewal is also a very good opportunity to check the masttop equipment and the in mast wires. BUT it requires taking the mast down. More time and money of course. So you should consider doing it now against the timeframe until the next mast down opportunity.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:04   #12
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

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Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
Well the answer was everything that holds up the mast.

So that means the deck too?

Nothing to do with know their business (they do for sure) , just a fed up lacy employee in the homeoffice....tried to bypass him but failed.



Does a martingale wire hold up the mast? It transfers loads but it doesn't hold the mast.

Same to diamond stays. If a diamond stay breaks, will the mast come immediately down? To my understanding no.

Mast is hold up by caps, shrouds and forestay.

If one of this fails it will come down immediately. And this can be changed by leaving the mast up.

From the rigger everything is ok, nothing to be changed. So i will do minimum i have to do.

But what is that exactly?

If a diamond stay let’s go while sailing your mast will go out of column and could collapse. Our insurance company considers them as part of the rig.

The martingale stay is one step removed from holding up the mast, but if it lets go while sailing upwind you could lose your mast as the front beam folds up.

Do you have an insurance broker? They can answer the question of what exactly is considered the rig by that insurance company based on previous claims.

But you seem to have answered your own question.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:18   #13
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Re: rigg replacement for insurance, is it enough to change Cap and Shrouds

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Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
I understand your timetable and constraints, but would like to complicate your problem little bit more��
The rig renewal is also a very good opportunity to check the masttop equipment and the in mast wires. BUT it requires taking the mast down. More time and money of course. So you should consider doing it now against the timeframe until the next mast down opportunity.
Mark, jackpot thats exactly another reason.
If I do a complete rigg change now thats what ia m gonna do too. Adds more chances something is missing and all takes longer.
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