Lightening strike

[goboatingnow]

Just checked The PV panels OCV is correct when removed from the mppt controller ,this has failed

So much for Victron robustness. My Chinese led lights did better

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Just checked The PV panels OCV is correct when removed from the mppt controller ,this has failed

So much for Victron robustness. My Chinese led lights did better

Few things are reliable when hit with 300million volts and 30,000 amps moving at 270,000 mph.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Few things are reliable when hit with 300million volts and 30,000 amps moving at 270,000 mph.

Clearly Chinese leds touch lamps ( 20 on the boat ) are

The current is nothing like that

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The current is nothing like that

You don't have Google ?

[Frankly]

Don't be too quick to judge quality of equipment based on direct strikes. While some mfg do include some built in surge protection and some do not, often other factors drive what survives and what does not.

Last Summer I had an apparent close by strike (both my wife and my neighbor say lightning actually hit the boat), the only thing damaged was the wireless remote control for my bow thruster (long antenna and long control cable going fwd). Three Victron MMPT solar controllers still fine as is everything else (lot of Raymarine and Garmin).


Frank

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You don't have Google ?

Clearly lightening strikes come in many shapes and sizes and currents that type of current would vaporised any wiring !!!

[team karst]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Clearly lightening strikes come in many shapes and sizes and currents that type of current would vaporised any wiring !!!

True. People have survived direct strikes, and other strikes have melted a hole in 1/4” CRS.

Have to play the odds here. Wind comes in zero to 200 kts also. [emoji15]

But we can usually avoid very high winds and high seas. Lightning gets us at dockside on a otherwise very survivable day. Not fair!

[team karst]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Also the Chinese led fittings excepting 2 out of about 20 all survived the dc bus spike !!!! ( as did the Chinese buck boost converters !!! )

Were all those LEDS turned on and in the same circuit? It may be like having 20 fuses in parallel. Which ones will sacrifice themselves to protect their neighbor??

[crayiii]

Lightning strikes are one of our biggest worries! I know of 4 boats that were struck and disabled this year.

After researching protection systems, I’ve found none that offer a guarantee or repair reimbursement if you suffer lightning damage while using their system.

Because of this, we’ve decided to make sure we have robust insurance coverage and tow/rescue options.

That said, every time a thread like this comes up, I go searching for options.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I worked repairing a boat that was struck, most of the clevis pins in the shrouds were welded to the toggles etc; had to be cut out by the riggers.

They got hit with a skyborne spot welder. Stainless has a high melting point, but a pin in hole attachment could present a fairly small conduction cross section area. Thus a high temperature localization

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by team karst

@jedi

How does one isolate when VHF shield connects the lightning bolt attach point on the masthead to radio case and NEG supply? My Raymarine radio wont have multi kV isolation from chassis/circuit ref to seatalk, etc

Easy. Put a capacitor in series.


Fairview Microwave has commercial products designed to do this. They are expensive:


https://www.fairviewmicrowave.com/in...-sd3082-p.aspx


A more practical approach is to use a VHF surge protector. These really do work and are widely used in the industry:


They do not open the shield but they redirect most of the energy of the strike. They have to have braid connecting them to a keel bolt or whatever.


https://www.polyphaser.com/

[shimari]

Originally Posted by crayiii

Lightning strikes are one of our biggest worries! I know of 4 boats that were struck and disabled this year.

After researching protection systems, I’ve found none that offer a guarantee or repair reimbursement if you suffer lightning damage while using their system.

Because of this, we’ve decided to make sure we have robust insurance coverage and tow/rescue options.

That said, every time a thread like this comes up, I go searching for options.

I've been doing the same. The closest thing I've found is this https://www.elna.de/en/sea/ddce-lightning-protection/.

Pantaenius evidently reduces your deductible on lightening strikes if you have this installed. I don't know anything more about it. My guess is that it is crazy expensive.

[Jammer]

stray

Originally Posted by crayiii

After researching protection systems, I’ve found none that offer a guarantee or repair reimbursement if you suffer lightning damage while using their system.

None of the techniques are 100%. What you can do is improve the odds.


Here is what I will be doing on my next boat:

• Use commercial surge suppressors on everything on the mast, grounding the surge suppressors to the mast itself:
  • Use a wireless wind instrument, or use a RS-485 polyphaser (commercially available surge protector) and a 12vdc polyphaser on the NMEA cable at where it exits the mast.
  • Use a twisted-pair ethernet polyphaser on the radar cable, again where it exits the mast.
  • Use a 12vdc polyphaser on any lighting and other circuits in the mast, again at the point where these circuits exit the mast.
  • Use a polyphaser on the VHF cable at the point where it exits the mast.
• Ground the mast a the keel bolt through a large MOV, so that it remains isolated at DC but will conduct surges from lightning
• Similarly, ground the AT-130 to a keel bolt through a large MOV, in addition to grounding it to a dynaplate through a capacitor
• Ground the DC negative busbar to the keel through a MOV. Bond the AC and DC busbars, use an isolation transformer for shore power
• Consider a ring ground around the hull for freshwater sailing to reduce the risk of side strikes
• Keep ancillary crap off the mast to the extent feasible. Mount GPS, Iridium, second VHF, etc etc antennas somewhere else.

This is essentially what I've done on my house, antennas etc all with surge protectors at the base of the antenna mast in the attic bolted to a copper plate, bonded with the AC but also with its own ground.


Again not 100% but you can improve the odds. The MOVs let you have a path for lightning without creating dissimilar metals corrosion problems.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by Jammer

They do not open the shield but they redirect most of the energy of the strike. They have to have braid connecting them to a keel bolt or whatever.


https://www.polyphaser.com/

Familiar with these and others. What they do is allow the center conductor voltages to drain to the shield. Basically, convert a normal mode voltage to a common mode voltage problem. Now you still have the typical sailboat situation of a million volts at the antenna headed for the sea. Both center and shield.
The cellular/public safety is to mount the polyphasor outdoors, with a supplied heavy conductor to a ring/earth bonding situation. Keeping the high current outdoors.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by team karst

Familiar with these and others. What they do is allow the center conductor voltages to drain to the shield. Basically, convert a normal mode voltage to a common mode voltage problem. Now you still have the typical sailboat situation of a million volts at the antenna headed for the sea. Both center and shield.
The cellular/public safety is to mount the polyphasor outdoors, with a supplied heavy conductor to a ring/earth bonding situation. Keeping the high current outdoors.

Right, so you run braid from there to a keel bolt or whatever common-point ground you're using. You will not clamp the voltages to zero but that's not the point. The goal is to clamp the voltage to a low enough point to minimize damage. A well-designed VHF will tolerate *some* transients -- it has to because it will pick up nearby transmitters. Or at least it will fall on the sword and the transients that make it past the transceiver to the DC power system will be more manageable.