Brand New Sailboat Ready For Open Ocean?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

So the OP announces that he has decided to get a new boat, and then people wax on about why he shouldn't do that. Even some who admit they've never done it.

While there are costs involved, there is also the benefit of equipment being new and under warranty. There's the new boat smell. There's the fact that you have exactly the boat you've configured to your own use and specification. There's a lot of intangibles there.

While I'm normally in the "buy used" camp, I also can see why someone might purchase a new boat, as you won't get to do that very often. The only real reason not to do it is if you think you're going to want to change boats in a couple of years. If you keep the boat long enough, it really won't make any difference at all.

I would buy new, or build. I'm not sure it's not cost effective, actually. It depends on the boat.



A new vessel has every system at zero hours and zero years of aging. I would love that.


I bought my own boat at 8 years of age and very lightly used, 830 hours on the main engine and 160 on the generator. She SEEMED to be in great shape, and surveyed well. I thought I was getting something fresh which would be trouble free for a long time. And I paid plenty for that, not all that much less than the new price!


Hah! The first year systems started failing one after the other. The electronics were in great condition -- but they were 8 years old, so already somewhat obsolete. By the fourth year of my ownership I ripped out every single bit of the electronics and installed an entirely new system -- $$$$. Sails lasted until year 5, and they were not the sails I would have specified anyway. So new carbon sails -- $$$$$. Standing rigging was done in year 4 -- $$$. How much have I spent on upgrades and system replacements over the years? £100k? More? I don't even know and would be afraid to add it all up.



I think it's enough trouble to get the boat exactly the way you want without dealing with systems starting to get time out. I'm all in favor of new boats now -- boats are NOT like cars. Or something old enough for ALL the systems to have timed out and have been replaced, by a fanatic owner. I think those are the two sweet spots. I would absolutely love to have a new boat.


And this coming from a person who has only owned one new car in his entire life.

[MicHughV]

Ha, let me give you some numbers...

When I started to build my boat, I thought I could do it in one year for $9K.
So much for that idea.
When I launched my home built boat it was late 1981...I started beginning 1979.
At the time I splashed it, almost three years later, it was still a very much bare bones boat, but by that time, I had $19K in it....ok...1980's $ numbers....but it was a bare bones boat. No frills, no instruments, no fridge, etc, etc, etc....I didn't care too much. I was in my 20's, was going to live forever, lived on hotdogs and cheap beer and wanted to get going and see the world. Bare bones or not, I left.

Over the years, as I could afford it, I started adding stuff I needed or wanted.
By the time I was done, I had $60K in that boat.

So, the reality is I could have bought a reasonably good boat for $60K, except at the time of my build, I did not have $60K...and would not have been able to go sailing for many years. That $60K number did not arrive until many years had passed.

The nice thing about a home built boat is that you will be intimately familiar with every square inch of it. Your blood, sweat and tears will be indelibly marked on every surface.

Though I don't have that boat anymore, it is still around.

From there I passed thru' two used boats. Cost twice as much, but still half of a new one.

But...You can buy a new 40' boat for $200K or $400K and anywhere in between.

And that is only the beginning, by the time you have it where you want it, you will have plunked down substantially more $$.

Build your own, buy used, buy new ?.....would I build another one...no...but then I'm not 20 anymore either and my taste in beer has also changed to the " good stuff".. I don't have the budget to plunk down $400K for a new one, so my choice is limited to used.

In my search for another boat, I looked at many, many used boats. Some of them in " like new" condition....others not so much.
At the end of the day, the jingle I had in my pocket pretty much determined the boats I should be looking at.

A boat, like looking for a girlfriend, is a highly individual thing. What you may like may not interest me. This thread has been all over the map...new..used...home built...but the reality is the OP wants a new one. Hey, if you've got the $$, why not. Give me a blank check and I assure I will go shopping new..then again, I know some pretty decent used boats too...

[letsgetsailing3]

New, used, or home-built, a boat is a hole into which you throw your money.


But the question was about commissioning and shaking down a boat before an adventure, I believe.

[CassidyNZ]

The truth is that in my wildest dreams (like a Lotto win) I would maybe buy a new boat so everything below should be tempered with that thought.

I bought my current boat used. It was 20 years old. We live in NZ and bought the boat in San Diego. Had surveys done on the boat, rig and mechanics. Flew to the US, spent two weeks “prepping” the boat and sailed her home. Other than the test sail at the time of purchase, our very first sail on the boat was 24 days to the Marquesas. Yes we had some issues on the way home but nothing that would stop me doing that again.

A friend bought a brand new Oceanis 40, it arrived from France in bubble wrap! Lovely boat with all the modern conveniences. The second time he sailed it the Sheldon in-mast furler jammed and left the main half out and no way of dropping it and with uncomfortable consequences that one would not want in open ocean. My honest opinion is that the boat is quite lightly built and I would think twice about long term cruising in it. But that’s my opinion and I know that thousands of Oceanis owners would disagree.

The new boat cost $120k more than mine to buy and the owner has spent another probably $50k on additions and has now decided to only sail it locally. Whether that is due to lack of self-confidence or confidence in the boat’s ability has not been discussed.

So to the question. Unless there is something glaringly wrong with a boat, a long voyage should be within its capacity but in either case (new/used) there is absolutely no guarantee that you won’t have problems. The more important consideration is can you handle the problems if/when they arise.

[barnakiel]

You can easily avoid most hiccups by sailing short passages when you add anything essential to the boat. Fit, test coastwise, review. Only then venture deep offshore.



If you happen to buy a fully kitted out one, simply start with a number of shorter then longer coastal passages before you hit the offshore road. You will catch all and any details that need attention early then, and fix these comfortably during the pit stops.


And then off you go. For you know, some things happen regardless of how much time you spend planning and worrying. Randomly and 100 surprisingly, whether the boat is brand new, quite old or anything in between.


A friend of ours who makes boats in RSA sails them with each new buyer to Namibia. There from the owners depart to their destinations (in the US and Europe). And guess what, all made their passages in style and safety. Good new boats are just that, good.


Lucky U. Envy ;-)



b.

[MicHughV]

To get back to the topic....ahem....now that we've discussed new, used and homebuilt.

A good friend of mine has the Oceanis 351, and off course, I am quite familiar with the 432....he he he....
Being a Beneteau it will have that flat planing type hull that the French favor and the hull beam will carry a good way back.
I have sailed the 351 and it's much like mine. It's a good sailing boat with a good turn of speed. The 432, in my opinion, is a marvel of a boat, a sailing demon.

The Beneteau comes equipped in several different ways, deep keel, standard keel and shoal keel, in-mast main, standard main, etc. so some thought should go there. Off course a deep keel provides better on the wind pointing abilities, but the standard draft....5'6" is a good compromise and can let you access shallower cruising grounds. The shoal draft is even less than the 5'6", but then your rudder will be deeper than the keel, not good when you run aground. Not sure why Beneteau makes a shoal draft keel but keeps the big ( and deeper ) spade rudder.

Both boats sail extremely well. The 351 has the in-mast main, and I'm not a fan of this setup. Notably, every time I have sailed on this boat it has been a hassle and I would not have this on any ocean venturing boat. When the main needs to come down or be reefed, the last thing you'll want is a hassle. My boat has the main with full length battens and sailpack. Yeah, ok, the full length battens I like, the sailpack not so much.

Being a relatively flat hull, the Beneteau has no bilge per se. The hull is a scant 9" or so beneath the cabin sole. There is a shoe box sized indentation in the keel that serves as the bilge, this is where you will find the strum box for the bilge pumps. Because a standard bilge pump can't fit in there, any bilge water gets sucked out by two smaller pumps underneath a settee.. Again, not an ideal situation. The float switch for this setup is next to the shoebox hole, not inside it, as it won't fit in there. Mine came loose and was ineffective when I needed it most. I re-secured the base with 5200. There is off course, a hand pump located in the cockpit and the pickup for this also goes to the shoebox hole.
Problem is, with that flat hull, when the boat is heeled over, any water inside the boat will run to one side and not the keel/bilge. By the time, the water hits the shoebox, you will have several 100 gallons of water inside your boat. Ask me, I know.
I fitted my float switch with an alarm, so when it goes up, the alarm goes off. I can highly recommend you do the same as night time problems are more quickly addressed when the alarm goes off. Day time problems too. You want an alarm that gets your attention, mine can wake the dead.

Both boats have the open French style transom. In earlier days I thought this was ridiculous, but now I've come to love it. Getting on and off is snap from the stern. Prior to this boat, my previous boats were center cockpit, but I would not have a center cockpit again. Even in following seas, I have not had a problem. The stern is so wide and buoyant, that it just rises with the wave. Even if you get a wave aboard, the main companionway has a high sill.

Both the 351 and 432 have all reefing, hoisting, lines, etc, leading back to the cockpit. The idea being that you never have to leave the cockpit. Everything works, but you need a winch to pull everything as each line makes numerous twist and turns to get to the cockpit, and there will be quite the snarl of lines in the cockpit or dangling inside the boat. I'm not a fan of this setup either, preferring to hoist, reef, etc, from the mast, but it is what it is. I've grown somewhat accustomed to this setup, but would still prefer the old style.

The lifelines on the Beneteau are not very high, in fact not nearly high enuff and I would not depend on them to keep you in the boat. Probably why all the lines are led back to the cockpit, going out on deck in rough weather on the Beneteau is discouraged.

The rudder is huge blade hanging near the rear. There is no skeg. Backing up the Beneteau with that big blade is a cinch, but I prefer the skeg type type rudders as it provides some protection for the rudder.

The boat will come with a big 3 bladed propellor. Considering what a fine sailing boat the Beneteau is, get rid of this thing and install a maxprop. No iffs, ands or buts. Just do it.

Some Beneteau's come with a Volvo engine. Mine originally came with a Volvo, but the previous owner replaced it with a Yanmar. Having lived with Volvo engines before, I am ever grateful for this. No matter how perfect, I would not buy a boat again with a Volvo diesel engine in it. I think newer models are now equipped with Yanmars.

So those are the basics. In the past I have been content to plod along at 5 knots, but the Beneteau often sees 8 knots...the big attraction, to me anyway, is the sailing ability of these boats. the 432 in my opinion, is a wonderful sailing boat, the 351 also good, but being smaller not as feisty.

The Beneteau is the French concept of what a modern sailing boat should be. No-one can deny that the French are good sailors. Beneteau's are now made in the US, so you can visit the plant of you want.

The 351 is a fine boat, it is basically a mini-me of the 432. Being familiar with both, I would spring the extra for the 432, I don't want to change your mind here, but hands down the 432 is 100 times nicer. That 8' is ALL the difference here.

Both Beneteau's are low profile, compared to say...a Hunter...so at anchor they are quite docile.

I have also been on the larger Beneteau 473, but that boat simply did not appeal to me.

The interior of the Beneteau is great, light, airy, well thought it. They have the hull windows, I love them, you can sit inside and see what is going on outside.

Like others have mentioned here, the 351 is a little short on water tankage, etc, but could it cross an ocean...sure....but I think you would be more comfortable on the 432.

There is such a plethora of boats to pick from it's hard to say what is good, better, worse than another. I think the Beneteau 432, to me, is a good middle of the road pick.
The 351, to me, is a tad small. You need to step aboard a 432 before pulling the trigger on a 351. Consider some of the things I've written.

If you need any other input on these boats, I will be glad to provide what I know.

[Dsalvail]

I purchased a new Jeanneau sailboat with a friend a decade ago. We took it out on coastal trips (days, weekends), and it took the better part of a season (Spring to Fall) to get it up to the point where we could take it out and "trust it".

I recall the dreadful feeling of something breaking on this new, expensive boat, having to limp back to the marina, call the dealer, speak with the manufacturer... Standing rigging... engine... electrical system... water maker.. fridge... broken transmission... leaking portholes... It got to the point where we had a routine going.

It struck me then as incredible that the boating industry had NO quality control whatsoever. Spend $300K, get a half-assembled boat, do the troubleshooting yourself. Granted, most of the boat was on warranty. But the time! The aggravation! The disappointment! That sinking feeling that you bought a lemon, and will never offload it.

My experience may be unique (I don't think so); I'll let someone else do the troubleshooting, iron out the kinks, pile up the spares, change the cheap components, bring everything up to speed. I'll then buy his boat for 75% of its original value, and have a reliable, properly tried-and-true boat I can trust.

We have since bought 2 more boats, used, and have firmly joined the "buy used" club.

BUT: I understand the pleasure of buying new. If you must, go for it! Figure a season of upgrades before you can sail confidently on the new boat. By which time, of course, it will be a "used", reliable, quality-controlled boat. And you will have plenty of potential buyers for it!

[Cheechako]

New boat? I'd cruise locally for a year to work things out. Nothing goes as planned. Your realization of "what you need" or "how you want it" will change once aboard for a year.

[MIRELOS]

I bought three boats in the last 35 years, no regrets.....there was always a little something to fix or tweak but nothing major....Used or new you have to want it because either way it is going to cost and no land person will understand

[malbert73]

I like this humorous blog post on buying new:

https://sailingintofreedom.com/tips/


Tip on buying a “new” old boat

S*** happens but s*** happens on boats more. I am not trying to dissuade you, you just have to know this. Hey I am not completely stupid and I am still on a boat since 2010 so there must be something good about it.

Don’t buy a brand new boat. What you do, is you let someone else do this for you. They pay the obscene price and then test it for you over a few years so you can see where it is failing and not up to scratch. Sometimes they even repair it properly so it is better than before. I like these people. They are the most wonderful people around. They see you in the future buying their boat. They know your lack of funds and your concern about the strength and durability of the boat. They then, out of the goodness of their hearts, make the decision to buy it for you brand new, test it and then give you a discount after all the testing because they are such good blokes. These people are the best people ever. And I mean ever.

Here is an example of why you ought not buy a brand new boat. I drove past one boat everyday when I was working. It was sitting in the same spot on the hardstand for more than 2 years. The story goes like this. It was purchased brand new from a well-known manufacturer and was the subject of legal proceedings. Within 2 years of purchase it was delaminating everywhere. I mean it was coming off in sheets. This is not an isolated example but it is an extreme example. There are others of lesser degree all over the place. You can avoid this because of the kind hearted ones that will do this testing for you. Yep, these are mighty fine people.

[MicHughV]

when it comes to ocean crossings....size does matter !!

Slap some davits, dinghy and motor, dinghy gas tanks, dive gear, propane tanks, solar panels, wind charger and mount, spare anchor and rode, fishing gear, etc, on your stern and pretty soon you'll have 1,000 lbs stacked up back there...not only on the back of the boat, but extending another 3-4' behind the boat.

Additionally, cockpit lockers get filled with any number of heavy items.

Did I miss anything. Folks have a tendency to stow any number of things on the back of the boat.....generators inside the lazarette, autopilot ram, and once inside, those small side cabins next to the cockpit get filled with any number of cruising detritus..

You may look at your boat's trim and wonder why the boot stripe is 4" below the water at the stern ? Then add another 2-3 people in the cockpit.

In this regards, the Beneteau scores reasonable well with it's wide stern and extra buoyancy, but I have some seen some Beneteau's with their butt dragging in the water, even while at dock.

...'jes sayin'....

[nofacey]

Lol....depends how complex the boat is. I bought a new Folkes 39’ once, it arrive a bit later than expected, so we rushed - spent a week outfitting (storage shelves, fitting anchor, storing tools & spares, doubling battery capacity, breaking in motor) then jumped Vancouver to Hawaii. Approx 3,000nm
- basic electronics - depthsounder, no gps (used sextant), splurged on autopilot (pedestal mounted Autohelm 3000)
- no genset or watermaker

Young, more brawn than brains. Couple things went wrong, but we had tools & material aboard, so we fixed them. Awesome experience.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by nofacey

Lol....depends how complex the boat is. I bought a new Folkes 39’ once, it arrive a bit later than expected, so we rushed - spent a week outfitting (storage shelves, fitting anchor, storing tools & spares, doubling battery capacity, breaking in motor) then jumped Vancouver to Hawaii. Approx 3,000nm
- basic electronics - depthsounder, no gps (used sextant), splurged on autopilot (pedestal mounted Autohelm 3000)
- no genset or watermaker

Young, more brawn than brains. Couple things went wrong, but we had tools & material aboard, so we fixed them. Awesome experience.

Not to be contrary. If you were using a sextant you had paper. A hand held marine GPS cost little or nothing.

[johnmort]

Originally Posted by World

I have experience in sailing and buying used boats but never a brand new one. I plan on finally living my dream and travelling the world, and have saved up enough money to do that. I was originally going to be sailing on an older boat but made the decision to buy a brand new one instead, well in the next few months or whenever this pandemic is over. Anyways I’m planning on buying a brand new Oceanis 35.1, and was wondering how long I should wait before setting sail after I do the necessary upgrades. I just don’t want to find myself in the middle of the ocean and something drastic goes down.

The cost of an entry level new boat is now over $200,000 Canadian, then you have to spend $xxxxxx to make it an offshore cruise boat.
Buying a good used boat makes much more sense

[nofacey]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Not to be contrary. If you were using a sextant you had paper. A hand held marine GPS cost little or nothing.

Lol....it was 1984 Cadence.....there was no such thing as a hand held gps. ��