Brand New Sailboat Ready For Open Ocean?

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

What's with all the "boat market has taken a hit" conclusions?

I mean, do we know that, actually?

Everybody staying at home for a month doesn't suddenly devalue all of our cars, houses, and boats, does it?

I'm not at all sure that the conventional wisdom is wisdom.

The economy isn't normal because people aren't going outside yet. I expect some deals (particularly on cruise ships), but I'm not sure large consumer goods are all going to be 50% off when we do go outside again.

Just ask yourself this question. Imagine you were in the market for a boat starting, say last fall. You looked at some boats, made a couple offers, but haven't purchased yet. Would you be willing to offer the same amount and negotiate to the same final price on a given boat today as you would have been willing to offer and negotiate to in Dec? While the answer for you might be yes, it's almost certainly the case that for the vast majority of folks the answer will be no. They're going to demand some sort of discount over the past reality to account for the reality of today's uncertainty. Will that be 5% or 50%, who knows. But it sure won't be 0%. Might not be the case in a couple of niches, but undeniably will be the case in sub-5 year old production boats.

[GreenWave]

The "Use of a boat" market has taken a hit for sure as many cannot be used as intended just yet. As for selling and buying, while it feels like it should take a hit, the jury is still out for a few months. Maybe as many won't sell, but the good ones should be scooped up quickly.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

You'll have to get a survey for insurance but most are not worth the paper they are written on.

I've had three new boats over the years, never been asked for a survey to get insurance. Where does this "requirement" come from?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Just ask yourself this question. Imagine you were in the market for a boat starting, say last fall. You looked at some boats, made a couple offers, but haven't purchased yet. Would you be willing to offer the same amount and negotiate to the same final price on a given boat today as you would have been willing to offer and negotiate to in Dec? While the answer for you might be yes, it's almost certainly the case that for the vast majority of folks the answer will be no. They're going to demand some sort of discount over the past reality to account for the reality of today's uncertainty. Will that be 5% or 50%, who knows. But it sure won't be 0%. Might not be the case in a couple of niches, but undeniably will be the case in sub-5 year old production boats.

If I found what I considered a good boat for a good price that meets my requirements, I'd buy it. Just like I would have three months ago.

I don't care as much about a discount as I care about getting the right boat for me, right now.

Maybe new boat manufacturers will offer a 5% discount. Those who decide they want an additional 25% discount are going to be disappointed, I'm afraid.

If you're in the boat market, you didn't die of the coronavirus, and you're not all that worried that going boating is going to give it to you. If anything, boating is going to be on the list of safe activities.

Maybe some older folks who were on the fence as to how much they were going to go boating are sure now.

[MicHughV]

...I think a lot of people have a pretty hefty boat payment...plus dockage, maintenance, etc.

...All of sudden, for one reason or another, you have a problem starting to make payments, don't use the boat, can't use the boat, etc...so you call a broker and tell him/her...lissen....I need to sell this boat Quick !! Broker is gonna tell you....what price will you be willing to accept for a quick sale?

Have you looked at Yachtworld recently ? They are inundated with used boats. Many have been there for a loooong time ! You can always tell, because you'll see..."Major Price Reduction..."
Especially true for older boats!

If the price is too high...the boat is going to remain on the market for a very long time. In the meantime the payment clock keeps going as does the dockage. Sooner or later, you are gonna bite the bullet and swallow you losses.

When I bought my last boat...the seller had to bring $$$ to the table to pay of his note as the asking price was less than what he still owed. That must have hurt !!

That's one side of the coin.
And then...on the other side...
You buy a boat right now, where are you gonna take it. Marina's don't want you (especially liveaboards), the Keys don't want you, the B'mas don't want you.

I think it's fair to say, it's a buyers market at the moment.

I'm not sure where it will all end. Nobody does. If I was a prospective buyer at this time I would have a lot to think about.

I have been in touch with friends cruising the Caribbean. Same deal there. This C-19 has scared the crap out of a lot of businesses. People can't fly to reach their charter boats, etc, etc, etc.

True, in my neck of the woods, people are taking their fishing boats out of storage to put them to use as marine activities are still open. But sail boats are a rare sight.

I can't speak for every spot in the US or abroad, but like the airlines, the sailing market is in a tough bind right now. Just my opinion off course, but i welcome yours.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by World

I have experience in sailing and buying used boats but never a brand new one. I plan on finally living my dream and travelling the world, and have saved up enough money to do that. I was originally going to be sailing on an older boat but made the decision to buy a brand new one instead, well in the next few months or whenever this pandemic is over. Anyways I’m planning on buying a brand new Oceanis 35.1, and was wondering how long I should wait before setting sail after I do the necessary upgrades. I just don’t want to find myself in the middle of the ocean and something drastic goes down.

Congrats on getting a brand new boat! You won't have to deal with the sometimes crazy or confounding additions and modifications of previous owners.
Looks like a very well thought-out design, intended for coastal cruising. Maybe that's all you need, so no problem, but you did mention being in middle of the ocean. I found the following in a Sail Magazine review, which was generally positive except for:
"One final note: none of these are really seagoing interiors, as is reflected in their bare-minimum electrical systems and fuel- and water-tank capacities. These boats are intended for coastal cruising, and the various interiors, which have few handholds, work best when stationary or in moderate conditions."

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by World

I have experience in sailing and buying used boats but never a brand new one. I plan on finally living my dream and travelling the world, and have saved up enough money to do that. I was originally going to be sailing on an older boat but made the decision to buy a brand new one instead, well in the next few months or whenever this pandemic is over. Anyways I’m planning on buying a brand new Oceanis 35.1, and was wondering how long I should wait before setting sail after I do the necessary upgrades. I just don’t want to find myself in the middle of the ocean and something drastic goes down.

I believe you're looking at a shake down cruise - all new boats need them to correct anything not caught at the factory. Don't forget the water maker or you'll be getting mighty thirsty anywhere west of French Polynesia.

[Mithril Bham]

I have been involved in commissioning a few boats. Like buying a new car but better. That new car smell fades quickly, however.

I would never buy a new boat again. You can find a used one where someone else has already paid for all the add ons and worked out the bugs. They are a dime a dozen. Of course you have to be careful.
Have you priced out a good life raft recently? Extra anchor and rode? I have many thousands of dollars of tools and extras that have taken years to accumulate.

Think hard before acting.

[SaltyMetals]

Hv had a number of boats in my time, two of them new, the others secondhand. If you buy new get used to the fact that a NEW boat is 10X worse than a new car for all the things that need correcting or fail prematurely. Whether you buy new or secondhand i would recommend a minimum of 1,000nm cruising is safer waters before you set off.

the others hv already said that you would save a lot of money and an awful lot of hassle if you buy secondhand. Think of all those wonderful dinners you could be having on the way with all the savings you wld make. Also it depends on what comforts and what spares you might wish to take with you but i am not sure that a 35ft (11m) boat will be large enough or comfortable enough. I would go for 40-45ft (12-13m) and make sure all your lines lead back to the cockpit as well as anchor control and a gennaker if you intend on having one.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I think it's fair to say, it's a buyers market at the moment.

Like it has been for the past 12 years.

Turns out old boats don't fade away. They just go into marinas where the owners don't really maintain them the way they should be maintained.

As to the OPs question, even used boats need a shake down period. Just in case the old owner wasn't up on all of his maintenance...

[KP44]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

You'll have to get a survey for insurance but most are not worth the paper they are written on. Just a box to be checked by the insurance company.

In my experience, this is 100% true.
I hired the "best" surveyor in Seattle area, endorsed by John Neal and two yacht brokers as "the only surveyor" to get.
What I got was garbage. Every dimension was incorrect, wrong engine, wrong anchor rode, working VHF listed as not working, 9 feet off on the hull length!
The worst was that he refused to edit his mistakes so our boat could be insured. My wife finally convinced the surveyor's secretary to edit the "typo" of 36' hull to match the USCG Document of 45' hull.
In fairness to SAMS, they offered to censure that surveyor and asked for a formal complaint.

Buy the cheapest survey your insurance will accept.
Then inspect everything yourself and trust yourself. Get yourself a little hammer if you want one. Everybody will probably think you're a surveyor.

[MicHughV]

On the other end of the scale I had a surveyor that presented me a report that looked like a book. Not only descriptions, but dozens and dozens of photo's. There wasn't a nook or cranny he didn't look into. Even went up the the mast. How many surveyors do that ?

Naturally, the boat was pulled out of the water as well for a looksee.

That survey started at 6 am in the morning and didn't end till 6 pm that evening.
Quite frankly, it was exhausting, as I spent all day with him as well and the man barely stopped to breathe.

I found only one small error in his report that I discovered in later days. Having spent most of my adult life on a boat, I pride myself on my ability to survey a boat myself, but was handed a lesson that day.

That report enabled me to knock off a few more dollars off the asking price so it was worth the time, effort and expense.

The problem with picking a boat surveyor is that there does not appear to be a government type of licensing procedure. The SAMS and NAMS organizations are basically groups of surveyors that have put forth their own take on the procedure.

Finally, for the DIY crowd that want to do their on surveys, you can download a "survey checklist" this is a multi-page document, which is a terrific guide for the many things you are likely to miss.

I'm not sure if a DIY survey will pass muster in order to finance a boat or get it documented, I believe you need to have a survey by an "accredited" yacht surveyor. See above. I may be wrong about this, but that has been my experience.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

On the other end of the scale I had a surveyor that presented me a report that looked like a book. Not only descriptions, but dozens and dozens of photo's. There wasn't a nook or cranny he didn't look into. Even went up the the mast. How many surveyors do that ?

Naturally, the boat was pulled out of the water as well for a looksee.

That survey started at 6 am in the morning and didn't end till 6 pm that evening.
Quite frankly, it was exhausting, as I spent all day with him as well and the man barely stopped to breathe.

This is good to hear. So there are a few surveyors who do what they are paid to do. Thanks for sharing this.
I hope this becomes the future of surveyors; competent and trustworthy.

[MicHughV]

I don't make a habit or promoting others....
But look this company up:

Suenos Azules marine surveying

Hands down the best marine surveyor I have come across.

[Dreamcatcher34]

I have bought 2 new boats and both had minor teething issues one having been delivered by transporter and the other having crossed the North Sea to reach us. Clearly what you need depends on usage and we just cruise Channel Islands and french coast away from usual coastal hops. Having looked around before buying second time an issue we found in 2015 was lack of nearly new in locality and of a make and size etc we liked. Just plug in your length and location on a website and see what’s about. Assuming the op likes the idea of a new boat I might go for something slightly longer for longer cruising to increase weight and space for kit but it’s a personal choice as to what needed. If we were venturing further afield a genset plus water maker would be on list plus double poles for downwind sailing and parasail as as starter which would burn through the 20k I suspect . We have never had a survey on new boats. If you can find a nearly new stock boat it does avoid the risk of broker or builder insolvency which would be my main worry in buying new in current market so just be careful over how any payments in advance of delivery are protected.