Being more positive on CF

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Good observations Red. I’m often bemused by the “go search” responses. While it’s true there is a ton of good information here, the fact is this is not a database, nor a library. This is a discussion forum. People come here to ‘discuss’ topics.

While it’s certainly true some questions involve a simple factual answer, the vast majority of topics come shaded with grey. And besides, as Red says, an answer from a few years ago may no longer be relevant.

For those who seem annoyed by these kinds of questions, just move on. Little is gained by telling someone to go search. If you must, just point them to resources (as Gord, Ann, Jim, etc. often do).

When i first joined CF, I didn't know how to post links. Now, I don't know an easy way to post multiple links. Eventually, i learned to use the CF Custom Google Search for most things. Along the way, I found it was easier for me to find things if someone told me the answer really was there. Depends on what it is, of course, but I can't be the only one, so that's why I sometimes tell people where to look, but do not supply a link.

I think it is a disservice to give only a link, without trying to show the person how they can get the info for themselves. So, if it is someone with only a few posts, who has had a problem trying to find out something, or perhaps hasn't looked for him or her self, I think it's important to tell about the CGS. Imho, it is the person who gets his/her own info who is more likely to be a happy cruiser. Anyhow, there is a middleground here.

Newbies have to learn to ignore the blather when it occurs. It's not an IF deal, but a WHEN one, and I believe it to be a fact of internet life.

And good on ya, redhead, for sticking it out.

Ann

[Dave_S]

Sorry, just started reading this thread, saw people where admiring Cat Woman....

[Lepke]

Many grumpy old men waited decades for our turn. And we're blunt because we know sugar coating doesn't get the message across.

As to newbies and dreamers, almost all of us started as dreamers and became newbies. Nobody could stop me. As a youth, I had many boats, mostly wood. Some should have been stripped and dragged out on a mud bank to die. But it's how I learned what was possible and what wasn't. And I had a lot of fun with most of those boats. I worked all the way thru school, so it was my money that got wasted.
You can't talk a dreamer out of their dream. Maybe you can make them aware of the pitfalls. I'm lucky I didn't drag home a lumber schooner or a steamboat. There were a couple around that could be had for nothing.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

...So, if it is someone with only a few posts, who has had a problem trying to find out something, or perhaps hasn't looked for him or her self, I think it's important to tell about the CGS. Imho, it is the person who gets his/her own info who is more likely to be a happy cruiser. Anyhow, there is a middleground here.

I suppose you’re right Ann. If people don’t actually know how to use search tools to target specific website, then they should — but I think most web users do.

Even so; a discussion forum is a poor database. The results of this kind of search still produce a mish mash of hits that can take a long time to sift through. It’s often easier just to post the question, and get a simple answer. If one doesn’t want to respond, then don’t. I don’t see how these posts diminish the forum, but a snarky “go search” certainly does.

Besides, this is still only useful in a very narrow type of topic here on CF. Very few questions (that I notice anyway) are simple factual questions. Most involve some sort of experience/opinion.

[a64pilot]

Everything that can be asked within reason was asked and answered years ago.
What is a stupid question to one is something that someone else has just thought of.

However I do believe that sometimes being positive will do someone a disservice, the person that is 40 yrs old, that wants to buy a boat for $5,000 and live on it and fish for food for example, I personally think that being positive to that person may have them undertake something that isn’t in their best interests. Maybe it’s best to point out to them it’s not always a beer commercial, especially if they are taking their children with them.

I remember this well because I was out in the same place at the same time in of course the same weather. It wasn’t really that bad, but I heard from others that their boat wasn’t seaworthy, and that of course I guess made the difference.
https://www.nbc-2.com/story/35850878...off-swfl-coast

On edit, I’m not sayin he paid $5,000 for his boat, nor am I saying he fished for food, his case is just one that I remember, I guess because my Daughter and his were about the same age and we were put in the same place etc.

[JPA Cate]

A couple of years back there was a thread about when should we not encourage people to "just go do it". Boatman 61 usually supports getting started, and I think he secretly hopes the person is competent to decide if they get over their heads. There is some data to support this, too, the guy earlier this year, who left his boat beached in FL after making zillions of mistakes, but the biggest one was to not have awareness that he didn't know about sailing, nor about charts, nor about weather. And, he escaped with his life.

It is an ethical question about encouraging people, and also whether it is "nice" to do so if you think they are opening themselves to the possibility of a world of hurt. We can talk about it here, but I don't think we can treat it like a problem to be solved. I think we have to work our ways to solutions of what advice to offer and when, and try to be sensitive not to overload the recipient of our advice.

Ann

[Wotname]

In some ways, a newbie (in any field) is akin to a child in so far as they don't yet have knowledge and experience to guide their decisions.

The old salt (or GOM or GOW or GOCL) takes the role of a parent in guiding the newbie though this formative stage.

Some parents do it one way, others another way; at least on CF, a newbie can choose the parenting style thats suits them.

GOM - Grumpy Old Man
GOW - Grumpy Old Woman
GOCL - Grumpy Old Cat Lady

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Wotname

In some ways, a newbie (in any field) is akin to a child in so far as they don't yet have knowledge and experience to guide their decisions.

The old salt (or GOM or GOW or GOCL) takes the role of a parent in guiding the newbie though this formative stage.

Some parents do it one way, others another way; at least on CF, a newbie can choose the parenting style thats suits them.

GOM - Grumpy Old Man
GOW - Grumpy Old Woman
GOCL - Grumpy Old Cat Lady

And just as a child does not get to critique the parenting that is applied to him (up until teen years), the newbie doesn't get to critique the posts that respond to his queries.

Doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to be nice, even when in parade raining mode, but blanket approval and encouragement isn't required IMO.

Jim (card carrying GOM)

[daletournier]

Theres a place for positvity absolutely, sad old world without it, BUT there's a place for "real"as well. Quite often this "real" gets labelled negative because it's not what people want to hear or isn't PC.

I think the religion of positivity often goes to far, and is actually harmful at times.

Obviously finding the right balance is the key.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Theres a place for positvity absolutely, sad old world without it, BUT there's a place for "real"as well. Quite often this "real" gets labelled negative because it's not what people want to hear or isn't PC.

I think the religion of positivity often goes to far, and is actually harmful at times.

Obviously finding the right balance is the key.

I doing my bit to swing the pendulum towards the negative side so am I the balancing force .

EG So yes, go for it newbie (+ve) but know you will get whacked hard along the way because you didn't listen to the naysayers (-ve); I told you so (balance)

[AKA-None]

I don’t know. But I just read here for a couple of years before my first post as there is so much here to be found just by browsing. But I guess some are simply in a hurry.

[Calif.Ted]

At 17 three friends and I had the brilliant idea of buying a Navy surplus 30' wooden shoreboat and providing a ferry service for surfers to remote and difficult to reach breaks. Good target demographic as my MBA friend said when I told him the story, "OBBB's -Other broke beach bums". My dad said "This isn't going to work out like you think, but I know you can't take my word for it and you just need to learn some things the hard way." He was right, as usual, but then he ACTUALLY was a rocket scientist.
So when a newb says "I Just bought a 100 ft. wooden schooner off Portland Craigslist with no engine and want to sail it to San Diego and make it into a BnB." And they don't like my opinion I just try to remember sometimes, some people, just have to learn things the hard way.
It's all right to disagree, you don't have to be disagreeable about it. Probably read that on some blacklight poster in the 60's and it stuck.

[OleBird]

Two ears - one mouth -- for a good reason!

[Marc1]

Originally Posted by OleBird

Two ears - one mouth -- for a good reason!

Sure! The problem is that we have 10 fingers!

Positive is overrated. Reminds me of my daughter's in-law who practise the ironed-on smile and always positive words.
One day I needed cash and the closest ATM was in a really dangerous neighbourhood. I was walking with circumspection looking behind me all the time when there they were! The two with large smiles and wasted no time to tell me how that mall was their favourite and how family friendly it was and how their kid grew up there. I looked at her expecting a sarcasm signal to no avail. She was serious. i quickly retrieved mumbling I had to go to the loo.
Always positive is moronic. Tell it as it is.

[RaymondR]

If you had wandered into a board meeting at IBM a few decades ago and said that a couple of kids in Palo Alto had just wandered into a Radio Shack store, bought a bag of electronic bits and are going to start a computer company whch will far exceed the commercial extent and influence of the mighty IBM they would have called security.

The problem is that newbies are such untrustworthy beggars in that they can't always be trusted to fail in their dreams. The character that states an intention of buying a big old derelict and making an unlikely voyage in it to start a restaurant might just pull off a Gates and Wozniak and end up the Conrad Hilton of the floating restaurant business.

Should we encourage them? Of course we should, the future enhancement of the gene pool demands it.