40ft sloop refit questions

[Hudson Force]

I cruised, maintained and lived aboard my Morgan Out Islands for 44 years. I support all of pccm's comments. I put about 30K miles on my Morgans with minimal boat yard costs by doing almost all the maintenance myself. They are not the "featherdusters" and they are not the big money yachts; however, they are reliable "trucks" that can serve well.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by pcmm

So the thing with Sailboatdata.com is the data for the OI's are all over the place! and some of it wrong. You happened to compare your Spencer (Which is a nice boat) against the original Morgan OI sloop which is a fairly uncommon rig for the OI. Most of them were Ketches and the 414, 415 or 416 model. On those the SA/D ratio is in the 15ish range. She'll never be a race horse or point particularly high to windward but she will hold her own. and they don't take 12-15knts to get going. You'r right in that they are heavy boats so take time to get momentum going and you really don't have to reef until 20 knots. but I've regularely got 4+ knots on a 7-8knot breeze which is perfectly fine by me.. This is because they don't have 792sqrft of sail area. Its actually almost 900 (again sailboat data is al over this place on this considering the rig was the same until the 416 model!!)

Offshore atributes are great but 90%+ of people don't spend their time offshore, mostly its coastal type cruising and sailing. and for that, have the ability to sail decently, have room down below, on deck AND a full size berth in the aft cabin are all winners for me.

I completely agree with you on the beneteau canoe bottom issue. I would do the same they are great in light air but pound once it gets sporty and thats just uncomfortable

And to be fair, the Morgan I had experience with is the one listed on Sailboat Data, I can see from how it performed that there was room for improvements which they obviously made giving the stats you are handing out. I know the trips we went on together in Puget Sound they were motoring and I was sailing because her windward performance was hot garbage by comparison.

On the flip side, with my boat I don't get the aft cabin, it has no room for one, bringing crew along there is little in the way of privacy which is why eventually I am going to move up to a Spencer 53, gets me a bit more comfortable interior and better accommodations for my guests.

And the important part, it is significantly faster which is more gooder!

[SailingPNW]

A similar Morgan in fair to decent condition that runs and sails will probably run 50-60k. You could easily exceed this just getting and installing an engine and all the needed components for it to run properly. Sure it could be cheaper, but based on the other issues I am guessing it won't be as simple as simply dropping an engine in.

[Madehn]

Similar boat in good shape more like 70k in my area but ready to go. To redo everything on the free boat is in my opinion going to take a year of hard work and more than the 70 k. Would be a fun project IF you have the funds and time to spare I like Morgan’s and have made several passages on them. No they are not speed demons but if I wanted a go fast boat it would have a couple of thousand horsepower and loud exhausts. They sail reasonably comfortably. And in my experience are built pretty sturdily. You are getting a comfortable pickup truck type boat. 90 percent of the time you are at anchor anyway. Sure the Maserati gets you to the campground quicker but the things are a $&@?! To sleep in once you get there. 😀😀😀

[Statistical]

Absolute absolute minimum it is going to cost you $50k and that is not touching anything you don't have to. Even small stuff on boats adds up. From there it depends on if you find more wrong or you want to make not required but beneficial upgrades. Very easily could involve $100k to get it well outfitted for cruising.

If you have at least $50k cold hard cash and 2 years time and really want the project experience go for it. If you don't then this has the hallmarks of a boat where you put $10k to $20k into it and after 1000+ hours of blood sweat and tears you still have something which you can't use or sell.

Now I know you think he can't be right I can do it for $x (which is some number less than $50k) but lets say you are right and I am wrong and you plan for $50k. What is the worse that can happen? You finish early and under budget and have extra funds for improvements to the boat or funding the first part of your ongoing cruising expenses. Not a terrible situation. If I am right and you are wrong and you try to go into it on the cheap you will end up $20k in materials and expenses into an unsellable boat.

[pma_foyl]

I'll cut to the chase (everything else is just detail). To address ONLY the things you've listed, it will cost more than TWICE what the boat will EVER be worth. What's more, there are dozens of things you don't know about yet, that will require work/money/time. It's a bad idea, all the way around. Sorry to sound like a downer; just giving you some realistic boat advice. You're better off looking for a $40k boat that is currently being used.

[Nicholson58]

In my opinion, your “bad list” is good. You will start with all new stuff and you will be able to determine where, what and how. If you hire work out it will be expensive. DIY and boat show specials and the internet will save a bundle. I would be very suspicious of old wiring and obsolete panel components. Use only ABYC rated wire. Again, replace and get reliable new stuff you understand. Save on rope by picking up end of roll or mis-cut shorts at the chandeliers. Frequently 30-60% off.

Plan for LiFePo batteries even if you start with lead. Make sure the chargers all have a built in lithium profile. If you choose lithium a good sales pro can help with your design and layout at no additional cost. We used Hank at Blue Heron. hank@starboardlanding.com

You will likely attend to the hull, remove old paint. Consider Interprotect 2000E barrier coat or equivalent.

[cottonsail]

Bought a project boat for 7k. It is a very unusual boat. Built by Swallow Craft Marine in Pusan Korea in 1980. 33' LOA, 27' LWL, 11'4" beam, 5'4"draft with a schoal keel, 2-90 gal water tanks and 75 gal of diesel. The beam makes it a very comfortable livaboard. Sails comfortably. Definitely not a racer. We spend about 7 months a year aboard and 5 months at our home in Denver for the summers. Took about 2 1/2 years (summers) to put it together. That includes a brand new Volvo Penta D2-50F engine & powertrain. So 7 years later we really have a perfect boat for our use. Would I do it again? NO, I'm too old and do not have the ambition. I'm 80 years young. In doing it over I would not go Volvo. Great product offset by a horrible company support in the USA.

[Leighpilot]

Don’t do it.
Buy this ( I have no interest in the boat. I’m in the UK ).

https://uk.boats.com/sailing-boats/1...nd-41-8765994/

$16k and it’s “ ready to go “. By the time you’ve installed an engine , replaced rigging etc you’ll be years and many thousands into that project.

[crosswire]

The first boat I rebuilt was a 1979 Shannon ketch. It needed an engine rebuild, all spars, all sails, all running and standing rigging, all chain plates, rebed of the deck to hull joint, all instruments, refrigeration, A/C, all pumps, all hoses, all tanks, an AC/DC panel, and some wiring, just for starters. My wife and I did all the work, except, painting the topsides, cabin trunk, and bottom. We were able to do everything in the water, except the painting. Hurricane IKE actually helped us even though the boat landed in a parking lot and was totaled by the insurance company. Other than destroying the mizzen mast and toerail, the hurricane did not add any new work to our project; the toerail had to come off to rebed the deck to hull joint and we had already planned to replace the mizzen mast. IKE provided us with a huge stock of spare parts from unrepairable boats, including all the spars.

After buying the boat, our first push was to get the boat usable, which we were able to do in twelve months. Then we were able to enjoy our labors and see that we were getting somewhere. We took our first really long cruise across the Gulf of Mexico four years after purchasing the boat.

We were still adding/modifying/maintaining things after owning the boat for 12 years. Boats never stop needing things done.

The point is, do not try to do everything at once, get the boat usable so you can have some fun in between jobs. To save some money, look around your area for companies selling used boat parts; for example, there was a place in Clearwater, Florida that had several unused Selden mast and boom tubes at a great price.

We bought the boat in 2008 for $31,000, received a payout of $26,000 from the insurance company after IKE, bought her back for $10,000 and had a total $160,000 in her when we sold her in 2021 for $80,000. While we had the boat, we put over 10,000 miles on her, not the best investment until you figure in fun and excitement, then, what a great deal.

Last year, I bought a 1981 42 foot Allied sloop that needed major hull repair to replace a torn off chain plate knee and attendant delamination, plus a complete paint job, top and bottom. Add in all the pumps and instruments, plus a mainsail and, 7 months later, I was off on an offshore race, followed by a 2800 mile trip to the Bahamas and back. $19,000 purchase price and $41,000 in repairs and parts; current market value about $45,000.

Both of these boats were heavy full or modified full keel models, so I started with good bones and ended with 5 to 7 knot performers that I felt I could take anywhere, albeit, slowly, but comfortably.

Look around for used parts to save a lot of money and time. The engine, for example, find out what was in the boat originally, hopefully a diesel, and then, get a used identical engine, even if it needs a rebuild. This saves the time and money spent trying to fit and align a new engine onto the original engine beds. The Shannon people were very definite in their recommendation that rebuilding the old engine would put me money ahead.

Good luck on your project.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Leighpilot

Don’t do it.
Buy this ( I have no interest in the boat. I’m in the UK ).

https://uk.boats.com/sailing-boats/1...nd-41-8765994/

$16k and it’s “ ready to go “. By the time you’ve installed an engine , replaced rigging etc you’ll be years and many thousands into that project.

The boat in that link i by no means "ready to go" there is lots of visible water damage to the bulkheads and floor. Tends to mean the boat has been flooded at some point. That is just as much of a porject bot, just with a $16k entry fee to projectl land! at to it, its an early version with the hull deck joint down low at the rub rail which is quite fragile.

[nrx500]

In1994 I met a 70 year old on the intercoastal in North Carolina who was single handing a 40 foot Out Island ketch up and down the East Coast. The boat is tough, roomy, and a good live aboard vessel. You'll be safe in it once you learn how to sail it.

While the rig is down, take all of the measurements and estimate how much rope you will need for your running rigging. You'll want different sizes for halyards and sheets. Three strand Dacron is easy to splice, but braided line is easier on the hands and grabs better on winch drums. You can learn how to splice that too. Buy full spools of rope in the diameters you will need and plan to do your own splicing. Rig the halyards and run fresh electrical cable (I like Ancor but there are other brands that are tinned) military grade VHF cable, a good antenna that can do VHF and AIS, and wire for a masthead anemometer/wind vane. Figure out what brand of instruments you will use. I have Garmin, but Brooks & Gatehouse are widely used too. Find a masthead fitting that will take your wind instrument and a tri color navigation light. Stick a piece of PVC pipe inside the mast for an electrical conduit. That's important because it keeps the internal halyards from wearing away the insulation on the electrical wires. If you cruise, you will find it easier to service external halyards.

Step the mast, and then work on the sheets, reefing lines, etc.

Call Beta Marine in North Carolina and ask about repowering with one of their Japanese Kubota diesels. They have all the parts you and will know what your boat needs. Because of the hull and displacement, you'll want at least a 40 HP engine. Bigger if you can afford it. Install a new diesel tank on the centerline or two tanks port and starboard. Morgan put the water tank on one side and the diesel tank on the other, not balanced.

After the engine is in, the mast is up, go sailing. You'll learn if you like living on a boat and where to put the things that will make your life easier. You'll want a galley with a gimballed stove, preferably with an oven, and a refrigerator. You'll have to add electrical components to power your fridge. And add a navigation area where you will eventually set up your electric panels - DC and AC. Don't be afraid to rewire the boat. There are books and Youtube clips to help you. Get a cheap heat gun for paint removal, softening up rubber hoses, and working with heat shrink electrical connectors.

There will be lots to do and you will need to buy stuff. But don't do all of that before you get out on the water. Enjoy your new life style and pay for it as you go. If you don't like it, at least you won't have sunk all you time and money in the boat. Just sell it and move on.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Often neglected items that boatbuyers don't mention

Stuffing boxes and glands for the prop shaft and rudder have to be replaced as will the cutlass bearing.
All chainplates have to be removed and checked - can't rely on external visual check alone...so figure the time cost of that...

If I had a nickel for everyone who thought a cheap old boat was an " amazing opportunity"

There is no such thing. EVERYTHING will have to be removed, rebedded, upgraded...if you want to actually go cruising.
If all you want to do is find a cheap place to live for a while, that's a different matter. As long as she floats and has properr amchor lighting...
So if you're looking to go cruising expect to spend a lot of money and time.

This usually sober up folks: the cost of bottom paint alone is more than $150/gal. The good stuff is double that.. Don't forget to add the cost of stripping off the old bottom. And that's just one routine bit of maintenance.

In any case you do NOT rely on surveys to tell you what needs fixing, surveys are only useful to try to negotiate the price and will inevitably miss or not even check many things. Surveys don't check motors or standing rigging to any great detail for example.