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wingssail · 27-03-2023, 12:19

Today I tried to order a seal kit for my Katadyn Power Survivor 35 watermaker.

No Luck. No vendor I could find will sell them.

Apparently this is a Katadyn policy.

I called Katadyn and they said they cannot sell these kits because it is a "safety issue". Because of the life saving nature of these water makers only a qualified technician can service them, so while they will service them they won't sell the seal kits.

Well this is total hogwash. We have had and used our Power Survivor 35 since 1993, when I bought it used. I've replaced the membranes twice and the seal kits about 5 times since then. Usually we are on a cruise and our Power survivor is happily working and then one day it stops pumping. In every case one of the poppet valves is sticking or leaking or some other seal or o-ring has failed. An hour later I've rebuilt the pump and all is good again.

Now the requirement is that I send it in for service? How does that restore my water making capacity when I am on a cruise? How does that make for more safety?

I've toyed with the idea of buying a larger capacity watermaker and the Katadyn 40 or 80 gal/day models were at the top of my list. Now I wouldn't touch them.

How about this, can I find stock o-rings, seals, and poppet valves somewhere else?

RaymondR · 27-03-2023, 12:28

O rings, piston and wiper seals are generally manufactured by companies like Parker and are available from places which service hydraulic, pneumatic and bearings equipment, and if you take samples to one of them you might be able to purchase replacements.

SV_FlyingTigress · 27-03-2023, 12:34

I have the Katadyn 80 in our boat and am replacing with rainman or a diy system because there are no rebuild kits sold....I have never used it but couldn't go remote because I have no spares.

Mike OReilly · 27-03-2023, 12:57

Does this have any connection with Spectra now owning Katadyne? Or is it the other way around? Anyway, a few years ago the two became one.

I don't have a WM, but I've always been drawn to a Spectra/Katadyne if I get one. This news would certainly give me pause.

wingssail · 27-03-2023, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaymondR

O rings, piston and wiper seals are generally manufactured by companies like Parker and are available from places which service hydraulic, pneumatic and bearings equipment, and if you take samples to one of them you might be able to purchase replacements.

This is not a bad idea, but if you are out cruising in a third world country finding a well stocked hydraulic store might be problematic.

And seriously, can you imagine going into a Parker store and trying to find all these parts? (see photo)

I've found some at Defender but they don't ship to Mexico (or anywhere but Canada and the USA) but I can order and have them shipped to a location in the US, and then trans-shipped to my location. What a PITA and expensive not to mention slow.

donradcliffe · 27-03-2023, 15:19

Spectra joined the Katadyne group, which makes me cross both brands off the list.

You used to be able to get rebuild kits for the Katadyne watermakers, so the new policy is a change. I do remember trying to buy a new bearing for the gearbox, and Katadyne told me it was unservisable and want to sell me a new geabox and motor for 2000 euro.

**Tellie** · 27-03-2023, 15:51

There's a bit of confusion here. I feel for the OP to be sure. But, the OPs PowerSurvivor35 was discontinued 25 years ago. It was replaced with the Powersurvivor40E which is still in production and repair parts and such are available for that and will be for a long time. The Katadyn 80Es and the 160Es were also discontinued a few years ago as the Spectra VT150 and 200T are twice as energy efficient as these Katadyn's. But there are kits for those available as well. Where there is some confusion may be from the fact that Katadyn also makes the "Survivor35 and the Survivor06. The Survivor35 is not a DC powered system like the old PowerSurvivor35 was that also had a handle to manually operate. The SurvivorO6 and the Survivor35 are a whole different class of watermaker. These are made for the specific intent to be in a ditch bag for emergency in the Life Raft for the ability to make survivability water. There is not a military aircraft, vast amount of cruise ships, commercial airplanes, and airlines, or any vehicle not a boat that has a lift raft, lifeboat etc., that doesn't have one or several of these on board. The fact that they are designed and built for this "Survival" purpose puts Katadyn in a legal position they are quite well aware of. This is why the policy that only Katadyn/Spectra can service these particular two units is in place. We already have too many unqualified watermaker experts out there doing all kinds of crazy things. The last thing we want to do is unleash them on the one thing that will become one of the top three things you'll be glad you have in your ditch bag if you ever need it. This is why they keep these close to the breast. Even after 12 years they become ineligible for serviceable work or authorized certification as well. Ever notice the plethora of O6's and 35's on Ebay? Now you know why. It's not even a buyer beware thing. It is a walk away from them thing. I do feel for the OP and I wish I could help. I made all the right phone calls to see if I could scare a kit up to no avail. But after a 25 year time frame from being discontinued I think it's understandable that nothing nefarious is going on and eventually the support will come to an end after a quarter century.

donradcliffe · 27-03-2023, 16:00

Is the Power Survivor 35 pump really any different than the 40E, or was that just marketing?

wingssail · 27-03-2023, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Is the Power Survivor 35 pump really any different than the 40E, or was that just marketing?

No, they are completely different, (the most notable is that 35 has a plastic pump while the 40 is a stainless steel one, with a different design and configuration).

wingssail · 27-03-2023, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellie

There's a bit of confusion here. I feel for the OP to be sure. But, the OPs PowerSurvivor35 was discontinued 25 years ago. It was replaced with the Powersurvivor40E which is still in production and repair parts and such are available for that and will be for a long time. The Katadyn 80Es and the 160Es were also discontinued a few years ago as the Spectra VT150 and 200T are twice as energy efficient as these Katadyn's. But there are kits for those available as well. Where there is some confusion may be from the fact that Katadyn also makes the "Survivor35 and the Survivor06. The Survivor35 is not a DC powered system like the old PowerSurvivor35 was that also had a handle to manually operate. The SurvivorO6 and the Survivor35 are a whole different class of watermaker. These are made for the specific intent to be in a ditch bag for emergency in the Life Raft for the ability to make survivability water. There is not a military aircraft, vast amount of cruise ships, commercial airplanes, and airlines, or any vehicle not a boat that has a lift raft, lifeboat etc., that doesn't have one or several of these on board. The fact that they are designed and built for this "Survival" purpose puts Katadyn in a legal position they are quite well aware of. This is why the policy that only Katadyn/Spectra can service these particular two units is in place. We already have too many unqualified watermaker experts out there doing all kinds of crazy things. The last thing we want to do is unleash them on the one thing that will become one of the top three things you'll be glad you have in your ditch bag if you ever need it. This is why they keep these close to the breast. Even after 12 years they become ineligible for serviceable work or authorized certification as well. Ever notice the plethora of O6's and 35's on Ebay? Now you know why. It's not even a buyer beware thing. It is a walk away from them thing. I do feel for the OP and I wish I could help. I made all the right phone calls to see if I could scare a kit up to no avail. But after a 25 year time frame from being discontinued I think it's understandable that nothing nefarious is going on and eventually the support will come to an end after a quarter century.

Tellie, that spin is a bit of misinformation. They have discontinued the power survivor 35 but the survivor 35 is the same pump and the same repair kit.

They stopped selling it, ostensibly to head off some legal issue and the volume of 35's for ditch kits is far greater than any of us still using the Power Survivor 35. They are protecting themselves and don't figure that those old customers matter enough to make some arrangement for us.

Your "it's discontinued 25 years ago" argument reminiscent of the planned obsolescence of corporations which we all hated and is not good for the environment. Do we all need to take out anything we have which is still working but is 25 years old and replace it with new stuff. Where does the old stuff go, into the junk yard?

I never said it was nefarious, that's on you, and your plethora of power survivor 35's on ebay is exactly one.

RaymondR · 28-03-2023, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail

This is not a bad idea, but if you are out cruising in a third world country finding a well stocked hydraulic store might be problematic.

And seriously, can you imagine going into a Parker store and trying to find all these parts? (see photo)

I've found some at Defender but they don't ship to Mexico (or anywhere but Canada and the USA) but I can order and have them shipped to a location in the US, and then trans-shipped to my location. What a PITA and expensive not to mention slow.

They don't use O rings or hydraulic cylinders in Mexico??

I have a 40E and a bunch of spares lying about in a bilge somewhere and I'm fairly certain that if I dug them out I could go to the nearest bearing and hydraulic supplier and replace them.

**Tellie** · 28-03-2023, 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail

Tellie, that spin is a bit of misinformation. They have discontinued the power survivor 35 but the survivor 35 is the same pump and the same repair kit.

They stopped selling it, ostensibly to head off some legal issue and the volume of 35's for ditch kits is far greater than any of us still using the Power Survivor 35. They are protecting themselves and don't figure that those old customers matter enough to make some arrangement for us.

Your "it's discontinued 25 years ago" argument reminiscent of the planned obsolescence of corporations which we all hated and is not good for the environment. Do we all need to take out anything we have which is still working but is 25 years old and replace it with new stuff. Where does the old stuff go, into the junk yard?

I never said it was nefarious, that's on you, and your plethora of power survivor 35's on ebay is exactly one.

"the power survivor 35 but the survivor 35 is the same pump and the same repair kit."

The Survivor35 is a whole different watermaker than the PowerSurvivor35. They are no way the same nor have they ever been. This was not planned obsolescence. It was discontinued 25 years ago because it was an anemic water maker and with the customers in mind the newer PS40E at the time was an improved model over the PS35. It's been 25 years since then. And you are correct. The company is protecting itself. Companies tend to do that if they have any sense or wish to stay in business. Frankly I'm extremely impressed with the obvious care and attention to this watermaker that even 25 years after it was discontinued it was still working. I'd be curious as to when you actually bought it and how old it really is. You could look at the automotive business; they are only required to have parts for discontinued cars for 7-10 years. People can still easily get older discontinued car parts from plenty of aftermarket companies. There's probably very little if any competition at all if you want to start building aftermarket PS35 parts, they are pretty straight forward. I could put you in touch with the right people. In fact, I have an old PS35 sitting in my shop waiting for the dumpster that you are welcomed to have. You can reverse engineer the thing.

wingssail · 28-03-2023, 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellie

"the power survivor 35 but the survivor 35 is the same pump and the same repair kit."

The Survivor35 is a whole different watermaker than the PowerSurvivor35. They are no way the same nor have they ever been. This was not planned obsolescence. It was discontinued 25 years ago because it was an anemic water maker and with the customers in mind the newer PS40E at the time was an improved model over the PS35. It's been 25 years since then. And you are correct. The company is protecting itself. Companies tend to do that if they have any sense or wish to stay in business. Frankly I'm extremely impressed with the obvious care and attention to this watermaker that even 25 years after it was discontinued it was still working. I'd be curious as to when you actually bought it and how old it really is. You could look at the automotive business; they are only required to have parts for discontinued cars for 7-10 years. People can still easily get older discontinued car parts from plenty of aftermarket companies. There's probably very little if any competition at all if you want to start building aftermarket PS35 parts, they are pretty straight forward. I could put you in touch with the right people. In fact, I have an old PS35 sitting in my shop waiting for the dumpster that you are welcomed to have. You can reverse engineer the thing.

OK Tellie, You are wrong in so many ways. In fact I wouldn't even bother with you at this point since I have now sourced and purchased the parts I need but it irritates me to run into someone who is so sure of themselves that they spout mis-information claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about when I know I do.

Look at the frigging pictures.

The pumps are exactly the same (except for the electric motor and gear box).

The repair kits are exactly the same.

Read the document about the seal kit here (which, by the way, DOES have all the dimensions of the parts in the seal kit) here https://www.landfallnavigation.com/p...ivor-35_en.pdf , so that's good.

For your doubting information, I bought this Power Survivor 35 in 1993 (used). It is serial number S3500-6060

I am sure I could show breakdowns of the pumps, but...

I'm done with you

wingssail · 28-03-2023, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaymondR

They don't use O rings or hydraulic cylinders in Mexico??

I have a 40E and a bunch of spares lying about in a bilge somewhere and I'm fairly certain that if I dug them out I could go to the nearest bearing and hydraulic supplier and replace them.

Raymond, Yes they do use O-Rings and other seals in Mexico, and in most countries. I've shopped for various seals and O-rings here and in several other countries world wide. I know the routine.

The problem that the shops are usually not well stocked and their inventory systems are rarely updated. So you walk in with a handful of samples and they start looking for something similar, comparing them with micrometer if you are lucky, by eyeball if not. And if you need four of any one part, they might have one or two. You may find some, but to build a full kit would be nearly impossible. You are much better off buying online from somebody like SealSource. At least then you may be able to buy exact replacements at a much better price than from the equipment manufacturer (until you run into a proprietary part that is not in common usage).

I can tell you that to build a full seal kit for a Power Survivor with all 19 different pieces by shopping at an O-Ring shop in any third world country would be a time consuming and frustrating process.