Harness at sea

[madforboats]

please excuse what might be an obvious question but I've just started sailing after a life on motor boats.
As I've been undertaking my certifications as I build up to do some coastal and then hopefully offshore and ocean sailing I've been onboard with a lot of instructors and race professionals. When we get into open waters they are very insistent on using a harness every time anyone leaves the cockpit. The reasons why are obvious. The deck moves a lot and an MOB situation is dangerous. But, ( this is just true not a statement of how it ought to be), attaching and moving about clipping and unclipping a harness is a pain in the ass. Especially on a cat which is both more stable and has a greater beam meaning you can't attach to the jackstays and reach the mast. (I assume someone has fixed this issue although I've not seen it).
So my question is - when cruising, in say a 15 knot breeze with a lazy 1m swell do most people still harness up when going outside of the cockpit?
In a car the seatbelt is much less annoying but before there were rules around it (and fines) lots of people didn't wear them despite the very obvious safety advantages.
Nowadays if I asked "when driving down to the shops on a suburban road do most people wear a seatbelt" I'd say the answer is almost universally "yes". Is it the same with harnesses or do sailors "take a risk based approach and make a call depending on conditions".
thanks for your input and teaching a newbie....

[SailingHarmonie]

If you fall overboard at sea, you will probably die. You can decide for yourself under what conditions you want to take that risk.

I don’t understand why what other people do should make the smallest difference to you.

[JPK]

For me, it depends.

For example, when sailing inside the San Francisco Bay, we're always in PFDs but don't use jack lines and tethers unless it's nighttime, foggy, or if someone needs to leave the cockpit in really rough conditions. When going "outside the gate" into the Pacific Ocean, tethers are always on.

[madforboats]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

I don’t understand why what other people do should make the smallest difference to you.

It gives me pretty rich data. The number of people lost at sea is discoverable. Whether they were wearing a harness or not is often known. What is less known is what the number of non incident miles that were sailed with or without harnesses. If everyone here comes back and says "always" that tells me one thing about the risk. If everyone comes back and says "rarely" it tells me something entirely different. ie if there are billions of miles being sailed with a few losses a year its a relatively low risk. If there are few miles being sailed without harnesses and there are a few losses a year its a big risk.

Simple.

[MicHughV]

It's a simple matter to rig a jackline either side of the boat and clip on when you leave the cockpit...simple...simple....simple...why even argue the point ??

This goes doubly so for night time....it requires almost zero effort and can save your life...

Try this exercise....throw something overboard and then turn around to get it.....see how long that takes....have your wife or other crew do all the turning around work....watch...and then get the object back onboard. Be sure to time it, you're going to be in for a big surprise...

Don't forget, you could get knocked unconscious by a boom, an errant winch handle, etc, etc...

I've harped on this long enuff....do the smart thing !!

[Benz]

I only wear a safety belt (not a harness; never a harness) on extra-dangerous occasions, or if I'm on someone else's boat and they absolutely insist on it.
Otherwise, it slows down any action, the leash is a tripping hazard, and it's a hassle I don't need.

[boatman61]

I have never worn a harness, or a life jacket come that.. however I know my abilities and have confidence in my sense of balance and reaction speed.
One thing to remember is people have died whether wearing a harness or not.
Its a personal decision based on self knowledge vs risk aversion.

[Pandor]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

If you fall overboard at sea, you will probably die. You can decide for yourself under what conditions you want to take that risk.

I don’t understand why what other people do should make the smallest difference to you.

This is a gross overstatement. I can say with certainty that if you fall overboard at sea from a small boat in calm to moderate conditions and 1) you know how to swim and 2) someone else onboard knows how to operate the boat and sees you go over, recovery is more likely than not.

But if the conditions are up, or you are alone on deck, that is a different story.

[MicHughV]

it's personal choice....wanna do it...do it...
don't wanna do it....don't do it...
it's your call,
I see little point in asking other people for their opinion, if you pretty much have made up your mind..

[boatman61]

Re your point on harnesses on a cat and not being able to reach the mast.. Its a simple fix.
Just rig jack lines running over the cabin top to the mast.
As to the reply saying see how long it takes to turn and collect say a fender tossed overboard I say.. MOB is something a good skipper should practice as a competitive sport to perfect the best and fastest manouveres to bring the boat around and return whether having to tack, reach or furl headsail and motor.. also heaving to in a safe manner to facilitate recovery.

[barcoMeCasa]

solo offshore I use a lightweight climbing harness & grigri device which can instantly adjust the length of the lanyard. Any kind of weather this will stay on 24/7. And nearly 100% of the time feel confident I can hold on & stay safe unattached. But know that's 100% wrong! This after a lifetime of working at height so clipping on is completely natural, death is the alternative. Even if not, imho it's more useful to think like that, keep the good habits up.

Quite often the harness will get used not because of any great danger but just to keep the habit up, every handhold, clip off point imho is far better when completely instinctive, no need for conscious thought. Then when you really need to be clipped off it's completely natural.

Often you'll see posts proudly saying "then we did an afternoon of man overboard drills" but never man not-overboard practice....

Climbing harness/grigri is also useful at the mast clipped over leaning back with both hands free.
Your boat, down to you really to take a good step back & try to be as objective as possible.

[Don C L]

For me, it depends. Sea state and windspeed factor in but I can't tell you the exact numbers there. When I am solo it's pretty much all the time. When I am out with the kids and it's calm, say under 15 kts, or we're motoring, then the harnesses are just close by and ready.

When I was a kid I never wore a harness or PFD, but then we never wore seat belts or helmets either back then.

Now, if I ever fell of the boat and don't make it home, my wife would kill me!

[Benz]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

solo offshore I use a lightweight climbing harness & grigri device which can instantly adjust the length of the lanyard. Any kind of weather this will stay on 24/7. And nearly 100% of the time feel confident I can hold on & stay safe unattached. But know that's 100% wrong! This after a lifetime of working at height so clipping on is completely natural, death is the alternative. Even if not, imho it's more useful to think like that, keep the good habits up.

Quite often the harness will get used not because of any great danger but just to keep the habit up, every handhold, clip off point imho is far better when completely instinctive, no need for conscious thought. Then when you really need to be clipped off it's completely natural.

Often you'll see posts proudly saying "then we did an afternoon of man overboard drills" but never man not-overboard practice....

Climbing harness/grigri is also useful at the mast clipped over leaning back with both hands free.
Your boat, down to you really to take a good step back & try to be as objective as possible.

How long does your grigri last before corrosion destroys it? I've had to take to using wiregate carabiners because the spring-gate sort corrode in a matter of days.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Benz

How long does your grigri last before corrosion destroys it? I've had to take to using wiregate carabiners because the spring-gate sort corrode in a matter of days.

Been living onboard constantly for 18 years usually on the move anchoring, same grigri, same steel crabs. All lasts fine, just a rinse down with fresh water now and then and a drop of oil. Webbing buckle can get stiff with salt so needs a wash & dab of fabric conditioner. Actually thanks! Just added it to the monthly to do check sheet,memory not so good as it once was

Anything ali doesn't last well.

[BenBowSirocco]

The harness discussion is akin to religious or political talk because it has a lot to do with your personal world view.


After years of full time cruising, I think I put a harness on twice. Both times it was logical: dark out, heavy cloud cover (no moon), rainy wet deck, big swell with confused wind driven cross sea (unpredictable deck movements), lots of wind.. Logical to wear one, so I put it on and clipped in when I went forward.



My personal decision is that 99% of the time its more of an encumbrance than helpful and I honestly dont feel I need it: I know my boat and my ability to move about it.


That being said: we always have jacklines rigged when headed offshore in case of need. You certainly wont be rigging those "when you need them" so they are part of "offshore prep".

I also make it a point to rig my jacks as far inboard as I can- so that my tether keeps me onboard the ship instead of dangling over the side.



In truth they can be dangerous in themselves: read more than one story of a racer being dragged to drowning by their harness, but then again since they had fallen overboard perhaps they were drowned anyway.



OP: we had a crew member who quite literally insulted my intelligence because she was so passionate that a harness should be worn at all times.

My wife and I not wearing one caused her so much stress it was a major reason for her leaving the boat early. She lived in a PFD/Harness from the moment we left the dock until we anchored in the harbor... Even when traveling inland.

I personally think it was our offshore swimming on a drag line with a spinnaker up that really put her off! haha Poor thing seemed to spend her entire life scared of it.



She heard me explain more than once:

"Freedom is the right to make poor decision. Dont put YOUR idea of safety on me."