Harness at sea

[VIPJets]

When sailing across the Atlantic and also any time offshore out of sight of land, we insisted that the harness clips be used when going forward of the cockpit. Of course, I assume that you have Jack Stay lines going from bow to Stern on either side. Nobody went forward of the cockpit at night unless it was an emergency. If you were solo at night with winds more than twenty knots , it is also a good practice to clip in at the helm.
Food for thought...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Flagfish

—————

Well, you do you. My experience- on night watch in the cockpit off the coast of Cali on the way to Hawaii, 15 knot wind on the beam. Easy sailing. Reading a book on the iPad.

Rogue wave slammed in, filled the cockpit and launched me clear over the lifelines into the water. Without a tether I’d still be there.

I generally do..

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A warm welcome to the sailing fraternity!

Your question is an excellent one, the discussion of which will be interesting for beginners and old salts alike.

As others have said -- if you fall overboard underway, even in good weather, you will probably die. So you should start with that premise. A useful metaphor (which I did not invent) is standing on the edge of the roof of a 50 story building. That's the edge of the deck. How comfortable are you there?

In my day job I actually do walk around on the roofs of 50 story buildings. In good weather, if the building isn't heaving like a boat in rough waves, I'm cool walking around there without any harness. I'm careful and methodical in my motions. Same on the boat.

Likewise on my boat -- with wide decks, if the motion isn't too bad, I don't personally -- which doesn't mean you have to do the same -- wear a harness (or a life jacket). I am careful and methodical in my motions, and I'm careful to keep a hand on the boat at all times ("one hand for the ship and one hand for yourself" is an old sailor's adage) and am very careful about tripping and I feel pretty good. Your case may be different. Or not.

In more lively weather I wear my lifejacket and clip on, when I'm out of the cockpit.

Another really important consideration -- are you alone on deck? If you go over when no one can see it happen, that is a whole different ballgame.

I try to avoid going forward when I'm alone on deck, and absolutely don't do it at night. One of the safety rules on my boat is no one leaves the cockpit at night while alone on deck. Hard to follow this rule when single handing, so it can be somewhat aspirational.

A few more important considerations:

1. It's good to practice MOB drills with your crew. Not just picking up fenders, but picking up actual live people in the water, and hauling them out. It is much harder than you think to get a MOB out of the water, especially if the weather is at all lively. A lot of MOBs die even after they've been found, because the crew can't get them out. It's incredible how many sailors who do regular MOB drills don't even think about this aspect of it.

2. Practice makes perfect. Also a fixed routine where you store whatever you are using in case of MOB always in the same place. Someone else can talk about life slings, Danbuoys, and other gear we use. Also there are different possible procedures for how you do it if you are under sail.

3. Most MOB deaths occur because the casualty can't be found. Without technological assistance, it can be impossible to find someone even seconds after he or she goes over, even in the day time. That's why it's good practice to have an AIS/DSC MOB beacon in every life jacket used by crew on watch. This will automatically go off if someone goes over, will set off an ear-splitting DSC alarm on the boat, and guide you to the casualty. Incredibly valuable, eliminating one whole part of the risk.

4. Another ugly risk is going over the side while tethered on. A standard tether will hold your face into the oncoming water, drowning you almost instantly. Two things to do about this: a. tie on where there isn't enough slack in the tether that you can go over the side (this is very challenging); b. buy those new lifejackets which let you spin around so that your back is to the water flow. Spinlock makes one; probably there are others.

Good luck, and post about your adventures as you gain experience.

At work it’s not acceptable to take those risks, walking around or working at height, you not only put your safety at risk, but also risk those below you and the future of your company and the jobs of your co-workers. No matter how comfortable you are personally.
I have been on jobs where falls from height have been some very close near misses, and in 2 different cases companies thrown off site 1 with police called and arrests made. I can be sure that prosecutions followed.
A boat is nothing like a building, you fall off maybe you’re ok maybe not, worse case you die and make a few people unhappy for.a while.

Oh I ware my harness on a risk based approach, which means it stays in the bag of life jackets and leashes. Of course I ware it if it gets lumpy, Admiral gets annoyed when she has to ware one.

Last went overboard in the 1970s wearing a life jacket, aged 5 and 1 recent near miss in total calm safe waters 18months ago. Fell on to the guide ropes 😂.

Full harness on when up the mast. Like yesterday, would have fallen without it.

[scottydaum]

Speaking as a person who has been swept off the deck by a headsail, and also going over by leaning on a lifeline that had not been secured at the gate I would say…….wear the damned harness. It is a very bad feeling watching the boat sail away from you from the water

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by madforboats

please excuse what might be an obvious question but I've just started sailing after a life on motor boats.
As I've been undertaking my certifications as I build up to do some coastal and then hopefully offshore and ocean sailing I've been onboard with a lot of instructors and race professionals. When we get into open waters they are very insistent on using a harness every time anyone leaves the cockpit. The reasons why are obvious. The deck moves a lot and an MOB situation is dangerous. But, ( this is just true not a statement of how it ought to be), attaching and moving about clipping and unclipping a harness is a pain in the ass. Especially on a cat which is both more stable and has a greater beam meaning you can't attach to the jackstays and reach the mast. (I assume someone has fixed this issue although I've not seen it).
So my question is - when cruising, in say a 15 knot breeze with a lazy 1m swell do most people still harness up when going outside of the cockpit?
In a car the seatbelt is much less annoying but before there were rules around it (and fines) lots of people didn't wear them despite the very obvious safety advantages.
Nowadays if I asked "when driving down to the shops on a suburban road do most people wear a seatbelt" I'd say the answer is almost universally "yes". Is it the same with harnesses or do sailors "take a risk based approach and make a call depending on conditions".
thanks for your input and teaching a newbie....

Ever seen how quickly a bobbing head in the water disappears when underway, within 10 seconds you'll lose sight. How about at night? That person who goes overboard is as good as dead.
On our boat, which is a monohull, there are jacklines that run up both side decks, it's a center cockpit, so there's a hard attachment point at the hatch, there's a hard attachment point at the binacle, jack lines run the length of the deck. You come into the cockpit you clip in, if you go on the deck you transfer to the jacklines. On an open ocean transit your always clipped in.
It's serious business, I've had to pull dead bodies out of the water more than once, it's a dead serious business.
Most cats have an open stern, what happens if your on 3am watch, with the auto pilot on, and you stumble once, no one will even know your gone till its their watch. Miles and miles away. But of course you were wearing your inflatable life vest?
Too much of a pain in the ass? So is having to send a dead body back from a foreign country, you have no idea.
I've had to go on deck at 3am by myself to reef sails before an oncoming squall, it's serious business, I would never be on watch by myself without being clipped in.
I mention 3am, because for some reason things always go wrong at 3am, it's happened multiple times when I've been on the early morning watch. Squalls, a broken hose flooding the boat, mayday calls from another boat.
In one 3am encounter I got hit with a fast forming squall at 3:15 am, wife had jut gone off watch, I had to go on deck to reef as winds increased to 40 to 45 knots from 14, got it done, fully clipped in. As the boat rocked in the increasing squall I settled back into the cockpit, my wife cracked the hatch three inches since the rain was driving sideways and asked me why the boat was bucking so much, my answer was I was just screwing around, she went back to bed fully assured that I was clipped in and safe. That's her confidence in my safety proticalls underway.
Still think it's a hassle? Pull a dead guy out of the water and have to tell their loved ones. I have little patience for shoddy safety practices.
Just my two cents worth. Don't be an ass, be a confident, accomplished offshore sailor, it has many rewards. Safety is number one.

[nonav]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

If you fall overboard at sea, you will probably die. You can decide for yourself under what conditions you want to take that risk.

I don’t understand why what other people do should make the smallest difference to you.

I’m sorry to say, this is highly likely!

Two cases…

We lost an anchor retrieval ball while wreck fishing, and it’s about 8 times the size of a human head as well as bright orange.

It was a bit difficult to keep on it in 3-4 foot seas, and took a while to spot it while running up-sea.

I was giving boat handling lessons to a woman last year who was not a total greenhorn.

Throwing an anchor ball overboard in a bit of a tide, it took her long enough to set a course for approach, that it drifted over a bar and drifted out onto the bay.

If you fall over and do not have a skilled, decisive person at the helm, you’re done.

A harness is far less inconvenient that drifting away to your lonely death!

[roland stockham]

My 2cents worth. Always stay connected to the boat at night, in bad weather or when solo. Solo includes not having another crew member ON DECK who would be capable of organizing a RAPID MOB drill.

The trick is well organize jack lines which many boats don't have so
1. Rig a strong point at the cockpit entrance so you can clip in before leaving the cabin
2. Don't rig jacklines along the side deck, these are awkward to use, clutter the deck and can be a trip hazard. They also only work on the windward deck. If you go forward on the lee deck there is almost always enough slack to allow you to go over the rail where you are likely to drown as you are dragged along
3. Rig lines above waist height well inboard such that if hanging off them you will still be inboard. on a mono a single line down the center is good but how you do it depends on the deck layout. make it a single run from aft the the mast (tie off to a mast cleat?) the another run forward. with lines well inboard they don't have to be that tight and you can use longer tether lengths which makes them less cumbersome to use

[Messing About]

Any thoughts on the Spinlock Vito vs the West Marine Offshore model with the harness D rings, for half the price? I plan on buying one or the other before my ASA 103/104 in May.

[Messing About]

Originally Posted by Messing About

Any thoughts on the Spinlock Vito vs the West Marine Offshore model with the harness D rings, for half the price? I plan on buying one or the other before my ASA 103/104 in May.

Bumping this up to hopefully get a few responses. Anyone?

[Russ]

Looked them but look to bulky and I prefer the metal D rings vs the web loop
Ended up with yet another set of Mustangs MD3184 at $300 each with hydrostatic release
No regrets

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Messing About

Any thoughts on the Spinlock Vito vs the West Marine Offshore model with the harness D rings, for half the price? I plan on buying one or the other before my ASA 103/104 in May.

My West Marine harness was over 15 years old, so I bought a new one last year. Brought it home and manually inflated it, which I do with all my harnesses every season. It got soft overnight, so I took it back and traded it in another one, which passed.

The other thing I do is take off the auto inflator. The last think I want is to be down below in a sinking boat with a harness that auto inflated. I made a crotch strap to meet the racing rules, but I never use it. I have spent a lifetime swimming in big surf, and I am not going to panic. The British want me to wear a hood too, but they can get stuffed.

[JPK]

I've been using the Deckvest Vito for a couple of years now and love it. It includes a spray hood, light, whistle and you can add the Ocean Signal AIS MOB device inside of it. The optional harness release system is pretty clever. It's easy to adjust and comfortable to wear, and has a built-in crotch strap that's comfortable and easy to use. If those features are important to you, then there's really no comparison with the West Marine model. If you just want a bare-bones PFD then the West Marine unit is probably fine.