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Old 22-09-2020, 02:06   #1
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Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Sailing: Striking footage shows ferry goers getting extreme close up of America's Cup boat
https://nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar...ectid=12366758

Which COLREG applies:

Power gives way to sail? Or
Overtaking gives way?
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Old 22-09-2020, 02:31   #2
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Typical ferry - To hell with the colregs. Might is always right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
Sailing: Striking footage shows ferry goers getting extreme close up of America's Cup boat
https://nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar...ectid=12366758

Which COLREG applies:

Power gives way to sail? Or
Overtaking gives way?
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Old 22-09-2020, 03:06   #3
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

If you look at the ferry’s wake, it had also just altered course hard to starboard before the near collision. Essentially coming out of nowhere for the AC boat.

In the states we are expected to give way to ferries which run fairly precise courses between points of pickups/departure. Everyone here gives way to ferries. The Stayem Island ferries are among the most difficult to avoid. Unwritten rule #42: needs of the many outweigh needs of the few. LOL

I’ve also been forced to alter course for military (United States Navy) vessels.
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Old 22-09-2020, 04:01   #4
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

I’m thinking Rule 2 - Which I see as combining common sense and good seamanship along with the Colregs to prevent a collision at sea. If you know that following these rules will still put you into a bad position in a specific situation, you may “break” the rules to avoid a collision. Both captains have some responsibility (not to play Chicken of the Sea), AM could have tacked sooner as it is much more responsive Boat than the ferry. In the end, this is a perfect case study for any seamanship class reviewing COLREGS...
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Old 22-09-2020, 04:22   #5
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Leaving aside the obligation to avoid a collision, where a vessel is overtaking another (meaning, approaching within the 135-degree arc of the stern light), an overtaken vessel is at the top of the pecking order. The sailboat is the give-way vessel in this example. Given how close racers often cross one another, I doubt the AC75 crew felt this was anything close to a collision.

This BoatUS article gives a decent rundown.
Any vessel overtaking any other vessel must keep out the way of the vessel being overtaken. The former is the give-way vessel and the latter is the stand-on vessel.

This rule applies even if the overtaking vessel is propelled by wind, oars, or rubber band paddlewheel
What's less clear to me is what happens if a RAM vessel (say, a ship in a ship's channel) mows-down a slow sailboat that is going the same direction in the middle of q shipping channel such as the Oakland/Alameda Estuary. My understanding of the rules - as supported by the BoatUS article above - indicate the ship is the give-way vessel. The restricted-in-ability-to-maneuver (RAM) only applies in crossing situations. Does anyone have some fact-based feedback vs opinion?

Peter
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Old 22-09-2020, 04:25   #6
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

if your question is serious : overtaking vessel keeps clear, even if under sail

but in actual fact for racing yoties, that was not so close and they likely enjoyed buzzing the ferry

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Old 22-09-2020, 06:13   #7
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

I don’t see a close call at all in the video and I doubt AC boat was trying to overtake the ferry. Looking at other AC boats’ path I think the ferry got out of their “channel”.
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Old 22-09-2020, 06:17   #8
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

I agree with the comment that it looks like the ferry might have made a hard turn right before the start of the video. In which case, the sailing crew were probably thinking "why the heck did they just do that!?"
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Old 22-09-2020, 08:56   #9
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Both vessels turned to starboard and successfully avoided collision; racing sailboats routinely come much closer together than this incident. No harm, no foul, no Colreg violation, both vessels being highly responsive and maneuverable.
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Old 22-09-2020, 09:56   #10
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Looks to me like a classic misunderstanding. AC boat was the give way boat. Rather than standing on, the ferry made a hard turn to starboard, the suggested maneuver for a give way boat, except the ferry was the stand-on vessel. AC boat then turned to starboard to give way to the ferry and was never what I would call close. Everything under control. The speed of the AC boat is what would have made the whole episode interesting.


A blanket criticism of ferry boat drivers is unfair and inaccurate. I have lived and sailed in parts of the world where they were idiots and seemed to try and run over smaller sailboats, and in other parts where they followed the Colregs meticulously. I suspect that the good behaviour seldom gets noticed, because the result of such behavior is that there is no panic or crisis.



Making a generalization, most Kiwi boaters are/have been sailors, so I doubt the ferry would be disrespectful of the AC boat. Further, the AC boats are practicing every day, and the ferries are running everyday, so you would think they are used to dealing with one another and have probably even established protocols. So, why the confusion? Good question. A mistake? We have no idea, nor did the boyfriend "megayacht captain", nor the journalist.
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Old 22-09-2020, 10:06   #11
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

While everyone seems to have chipped in on this one... It appeared to me that the Ferry took abrupt turn to stbd, maybe when the captain realized he was in the middle of an AC race. The AC boat just maintained his current course, knowing with great certainty that he would pass astern of the Ferry. Again, no harm, no foul. And in my "humble" opinion, not even a close call, given this is a AC boat!
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Old 22-09-2020, 10:10   #12
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
L.....................
................................
What's less clear to me is what happens if a RAM vessel (say, a ship in a ship's channel) mows-down a slow sailboat that is going the same direction in the middle of q shipping channel such as the Oakland/Alameda Estuary. My understanding of the rules - as supported by the BoatUS article above - indicate the ship is the give-way vessel. The restricted-in-ability-to-maneuver (RAM) only applies in crossing situations. Does anyone have some fact-based feedback vs opinion?

Peter



Peter, I sailed out of the Oakland Estuary from 1983 to 2016. The big ships are going slow bell coming & going. They take precedence over yotties. Period.


A friend is a pilot. He's done a series of presentations, including videos of what it looks like from the bridge of a containership in the estuary. Very enlightening.
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Old 22-09-2020, 10:12   #13
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

As chotu says a ferry that has a known route day in day out have right of way in most civilised harbours , most charts always show a ferry route, I have to leave my marina and enter via traffic lights as it has ferries operating in the basin , ferries have right of way
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Old 22-09-2020, 10:18   #14
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

There's nothing remarkable about this video. I suppose those who are not familiar with sailboat racing might find this to be a close call, but it is not. AC boat clearly is being well sailed and has a good view of the ferry, and just passing under the stern of the ferry. If they had to bear off, they did the right thing. They are the overtaking boat and should avoid the ferry who is holding her course.
Now, if they had tried to cross the ferries bow, then I would be excited!
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Old 22-09-2020, 10:44   #15
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Re: Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

Hey, i'm just impressed that a monohulll overtakes a ferry!! Never had that issue and yes, in long island sound, we always give way, away to ferries: high-speed or otherwise. total displacement rules the seas.
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